4 ms·

OP/fanboy here; i'm interested in your thoughts on our products like Cloud BigTable: OSS (HBase) API, but unique goog performance bits under the hood. Valid? Ho

OP/fanboy here; i'm interested in your thoughts on our products like Cloud BigTable: OSS (HBase) API, but unique goog performance bits under the hood. Valid? How can we best move the state of the art forward?

jakozaur 10y ago
Though I agree some Google products are great, but cloud industry lacks standardized APIs allowing to switch between products. E.g. in the past we had OpenGL, PC which spur a lot of innovation and created whole industries. Common subset that allows seamless migrations. E.g. I wish we have standard for big table like databases: 1. Google Cloud BigTable. 2. DynamoDB. 3. HBase/Cassandra.
- milesward 10y ago
  I'm with you! We didn't want to ship yet another one so Cloud BigTable uses the HBase API: https://cloud.google.com/bigtable/docs/bigtable-and-hbase https://cloud.google.com/bigtable/docs/bigtable-and-hbase
  - jakozaur 10y ago
    Kudos for doing that. I didn't realized about it. Common API even in non-perfect way is so much better than everybody reinventing the wheel from scratch, because some tiny use case doesn't fit in the previous API.
- agentgt 10y ago
  I'm not sure this will ever be possible considering even switching to different RDBMS that do have a standard (SQL) is usually non trivial. BTW when people say cloud here I assume they mean PaaS and not IaaS because IaaS has many standards (openstack).
stephenr 10y ago
The problem with big table/hbase is that it isn't just a hosted instance - you've made it mostly work with the same api, but it's not the same beast. That you have a modified version of the Java client and a page detailing a heap of differences is not a minor detail. Honestly this just sounda like Google m/o (aka embrace/extend/extinguish 2.0) at everything. Gmail sort of supports imap and smtp but in several ways it's broken, but users don't care that it's google's fault, they just want their free email. Big table is not hbase it's just sort of compatible, but developers dont care they just want to drink the cool aid. If Google really wanted to commit to anti-lock-in they would focus on runningc open source software that they use their infinite budget to tune to absolute best performance, combined with contributions back to those projects, to improve them where tuning alone isn't enough.
- nl 10y ago
  Honestly this just sounda like Google m/o (aka embrace/extend/extinguish 2.0) at everything. Well... to be fair here, Google did invent BigTable, then the HBase clone was created based on the public information about it.
  - stephenr 10y ago
    > Google did invent BigTable, then the HBase clone was created I'm talking about Google's "support" for the HBase API in their BigTable service for GCP.
  - zellyn 10y ago
    And some of the Google tools are way better than their clones.

jakozaur 10y ago

Though I agree some Google products are great, but cloud industry lacks standardized APIs allowing to switch between products. E.g. in the past we had OpenGL, PC which spur a lot of innovation and created whole industries. Common subset that allows seamless migrations. E.g. I wish we have standard for big table like databases: 1. Google Cloud BigTable. 2. DynamoDB. 3. HBase/Cassandra.

milesward 10y ago
I'm with you! We didn't want to ship yet another one so Cloud BigTable uses the HBase API: https://cloud.google.com/bigtable/docs/bigtable-and-hbase https://cloud.google.com/bigtable/docs/bigtable-and-hbase
- jakozaur 10y ago
  Kudos for doing that. I didn't realized about it. Common API even in non-perfect way is so much better than everybody reinventing the wheel from scratch, because some tiny use case doesn't fit in the previous API.
agentgt 10y ago
I'm not sure this will ever be possible considering even switching to different RDBMS that do have a standard (SQL) is usually non trivial. BTW when people say cloud here I assume they mean PaaS and not IaaS because IaaS has many standards (openstack).

stephenr 10y ago

The problem with big table/hbase is that it isn't just a hosted instance - you've made it mostly work with the same api, but it's not the same beast. That you have a modified version of the Java client and a page detailing a heap of differences is not a minor detail. Honestly this just sounda like Google m/o (aka embrace/extend/extinguish 2.0) at everything. Gmail sort of supports imap and smtp but in several ways it's broken, but users don't care that it's google's fault, they just want their free email. Big table is not hbase it's just sort of compatible, but developers dont care they just want to drink the cool aid. If Google really wanted to commit to anti-lock-in they would focus on runningc open source software that they use their infinite budget to tune to absolute best performance, combined with contributions back to those projects, to improve them where tuning alone isn't enough.

nl 10y ago
Honestly this just sounda like Google m/o (aka embrace/extend/extinguish 2.0) at everything. Well... to be fair here, Google did invent BigTable, then the HBase clone was created based on the public information about it.
- stephenr 10y ago
  > Google did invent BigTable, then the HBase clone was created I'm talking about Google's "support" for the HBase API in their BigTable service for GCP.
- zellyn 10y ago
  And some of the Google tools are way better than their clones.