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It takes a lot of engineering time and effort to be able to switch between mentioned alternatives. E.g. Druid and Drill vs. BigQuery. This article is more prob

It takes a lot of engineering time and effort to be able to switch between mentioned alternatives. E.g. Druid and Drill vs. BigQuery. This article is more probably to convince ppl to use Google Cloud rather than how to run multicloud strategy.

stephenr 10y ago
ding ding ding, we have a winner. If their "cloud" offerings were all just hosted instances of open source, there would be no lock-in, but they would have no 'competitive edge'. I think this is more about letting Google fanboy dev's sell higher-ups on GCP because "hey look they're not trying to lock us in like AWS is!"
- milesward 10y ago
  OP/fanboy here; i'm interested in your thoughts on our products like Cloud BigTable: OSS (HBase) API, but unique goog performance bits under the hood. Valid? How can we best move the state of the art forward?
  - jakozaur 10y ago
    Though I agree some Google products are great, but cloud industry lacks standardized APIs allowing to switch between products. E.g. in the past we had OpenGL, PC which spur a lot of innovation and created whole industries. Common subset that allows seamless migrations. E.g. I wish we have standard for big table like databases: 1. Google Cloud BigTable. 2. DynamoDB. 3. HBase/Cassandra.
    - milesward 10y ago
      I'm with you! We didn't want to ship yet another one so Cloud BigTable uses the HBase API: https://cloud.google.com/bigtable/docs/bigtable-and-hbase https://cloud.google.com/bigtable/docs/bigtable-and-hbase
      - jakozaur 10y ago
        Kudos for doing that. I didn't realized about it. Common API even in non-perfect way is so much better than everybody reinventing the wheel from scratch, because some tiny use case doesn't fit in the previous API.
    - agentgt 10y ago
      I'm not sure this will ever be possible considering even switching to different RDBMS that do have a standard (SQL) is usually non trivial. BTW when people say cloud here I assume they mean PaaS and not IaaS because IaaS has many standards (openstack).
  - stephenr 10y ago
    The problem with big table/hbase is that it isn't just a hosted instance - you've made it mostly work with the same api, but it's not the same beast. That you have a modified version of the Java client and a page detailing a heap of differences is not a minor detail. Honestly this just sounda like Google m/o (aka embrace/extend/extinguish 2.0) at everything. Gmail sort of supports imap and smtp but in several ways it's broken, but users don't care that it's google's fault, they just want their free email. Big table is not hbase it's just sort of compatible, but developers dont care they just want to drink the cool aid. If Google really wanted to commit to anti-lock-in they would focus on runningc open source software that they use their infinite budget to tune to absolute best performance, combined with contributions back to those projects, to improve them where tuning alone isn't enough.
    - nl 10y ago
      Honestly this just sounda like Google m/o (aka embrace/extend/extinguish 2.0) at everything. Well... to be fair here, Google did invent BigTable, then the HBase clone was created based on the public information about it.
      - stephenr 10y ago
        > Google did invent BigTable, then the HBase clone was created I'm talking about Google's "support" for the HBase API in their BigTable service for GCP.
      - zellyn 10y ago
        And some of the Google tools are way better than their clones.
blazespin 10y ago
Examples like tensorflow seem kinda silly. Who's going to build a competitive platform using tensorflow apis? If you use tf, you are locked in.
- mikecb 10y ago
  TF is entirely opensource. The same models will run on the open source version as in the hosted version. How is this not the equivalent of saying "If you use postgres, you are locked in."
ktamura 10y ago
>This article is more probably to convince ppl to use Google Cloud rather than how to run multicloud strategy. Yes. For public cloud, it's AWS v. everyone else right now. This is why Docker is popular among IT mega-vendors because container portability gives IBM/Microsoft Azure/GCP/Red Hat a fighting chance to stop AWS from gobbling up the entire cloud infrastructure. Container portability => less AWS lock-in => They'll come to my platform, perchance. Some relevant articles: http://redmonk.com/jgovernor/2016/07/15/what-kubernetes-and-a9-tell-us-about-the-new-industry-anyone-but-amazon/ http://redmonk.com/jgovernor/2016/07/15/what-kubernetes-and-... and http://redmonk.com/jgovernor/2016/03/08/rise-of-the-docker-pattern/ http://redmonk.com/jgovernor/2016/03/08/rise-of-the-docker-p...

stephenr 10y ago

ding ding ding, we have a winner. If their "cloud" offerings were all just hosted instances of open source, there would be no lock-in, but they would have no 'competitive edge'. I think this is more about letting Google fanboy dev's sell higher-ups on GCP because "hey look they're not trying to lock us in like AWS is!"

milesward 10y ago
OP/fanboy here; i'm interested in your thoughts on our products like Cloud BigTable: OSS (HBase) API, but unique goog performance bits under the hood. Valid? How can we best move the state of the art forward?
- jakozaur 10y ago
  Though I agree some Google products are great, but cloud industry lacks standardized APIs allowing to switch between products. E.g. in the past we had OpenGL, PC which spur a lot of innovation and created whole industries. Common subset that allows seamless migrations. E.g. I wish we have standard for big table like databases: 1. Google Cloud BigTable. 2. DynamoDB. 3. HBase/Cassandra.
  - milesward 10y ago
    I'm with you! We didn't want to ship yet another one so Cloud BigTable uses the HBase API: https://cloud.google.com/bigtable/docs/bigtable-and-hbase https://cloud.google.com/bigtable/docs/bigtable-and-hbase
    - jakozaur 10y ago
      Kudos for doing that. I didn't realized about it. Common API even in non-perfect way is so much better than everybody reinventing the wheel from scratch, because some tiny use case doesn't fit in the previous API.
  - agentgt 10y ago
    I'm not sure this will ever be possible considering even switching to different RDBMS that do have a standard (SQL) is usually non trivial. BTW when people say cloud here I assume they mean PaaS and not IaaS because IaaS has many standards (openstack).
- stephenr 10y ago
  The problem with big table/hbase is that it isn't just a hosted instance - you've made it mostly work with the same api, but it's not the same beast. That you have a modified version of the Java client and a page detailing a heap of differences is not a minor detail. Honestly this just sounda like Google m/o (aka embrace/extend/extinguish 2.0) at everything. Gmail sort of supports imap and smtp but in several ways it's broken, but users don't care that it's google's fault, they just want their free email. Big table is not hbase it's just sort of compatible, but developers dont care they just want to drink the cool aid. If Google really wanted to commit to anti-lock-in they would focus on runningc open source software that they use their infinite budget to tune to absolute best performance, combined with contributions back to those projects, to improve them where tuning alone isn't enough.
  - nl 10y ago
    Honestly this just sounda like Google m/o (aka embrace/extend/extinguish 2.0) at everything. Well... to be fair here, Google did invent BigTable, then the HBase clone was created based on the public information about it.
    - stephenr 10y ago
      > Google did invent BigTable, then the HBase clone was created I'm talking about Google's "support" for the HBase API in their BigTable service for GCP.
    - zellyn 10y ago
      And some of the Google tools are way better than their clones.

blazespin 10y ago

Examples like tensorflow seem kinda silly. Who's going to build a competitive platform using tensorflow apis? If you use tf, you are locked in.

mikecb 10y ago
TF is entirely opensource. The same models will run on the open source version as in the hosted version. How is this not the equivalent of saying "If you use postgres, you are locked in."

ktamura 10y ago

>This article is more probably to convince ppl to use Google Cloud rather than how to run multicloud strategy. Yes. For public cloud, it's AWS v. everyone else right now. This is why Docker is popular among IT mega-vendors because container portability gives IBM/Microsoft Azure/GCP/Red Hat a fighting chance to stop AWS from gobbling up the entire cloud infrastructure. Container portability => less AWS lock-in => They'll come to my platform, perchance. Some relevant articles: http://redmonk.com/jgovernor/2016/07/15/what-kubernetes-and-a9-tell-us-about-the-new-industry-anyone-but-amazon/ http://redmonk.com/jgovernor/2016/07/15/what-kubernetes-and-... and http://redmonk.com/jgovernor/2016/03/08/rise-of-the-docker-pattern/ http://redmonk.com/jgovernor/2016/03/08/rise-of-the-docker-p...