3 ms·

I kept my Australian bank issued Visa card for a while when I first moved to Thailand, and used it while we were getting stuff set up locally. Even though it's

I kept my Australian bank issued Visa card for a while when I first moved to Thailand, and used it while we were getting stuff set up locally. Even though it's never presented locally, with that card cashiers would often get the "sign or pin" prompt on the terminal, and then ask me (or gesture if their English wasn't great), and I'd usually pick pin, which would then produce a slip with "No signature required" printed, which they would then insist I sign. Just in the last few months I've noticed more contactless terminals at larger stores (particularly the nation-wide chains) but I can't imagine what confusing unnecessary process they'll end up using for that...

nolok 10y ago
Thailand is a massively cash based society, especially with that whole "nobody pay their taxes" thing. Credit card are mostly used to take money out of the atm.
- stephenr 10y ago
  Yeah, I'm aware of that aspect, but I've never been anywhere else where the staff can't follow a simple instruction (No signature required) because they are so ingrained that card === signature. Also, for the younger generation (i.e. 20s/30s) I think credit cards are much more popular than their parents generation - my sister-in-law and her husband (both Thai, so not influenced by western approach) use cards most places they can, while my mother in law regularly has anything up to 100K THB in her handbag.
  - dawnerd 10y ago
    Canada is like that. Few times it's printed out a signature slip the cashier looked as if I just tried to rob them.
chmars 10y ago
Signing actually helps against fraud: Signatures can be compared, PINs cannot – and you can be made liable … :(
- gioele 10y ago
  > Signing actually helps against fraud: Signatures can be compared, PINs cannot – and you can be made liable … :( cough There is specimen of your signature on the back of the card cough
- Viper007Bond 10y ago
  No one looks at those. I always scribble, never doing my actual signature. Hell on those digital pads, I literally just draw a horizontal line. Never had a single problem.
- stormbrew 10y ago
  I don't think that there's an actual legal difference (though IANAL) here. Signatures and PINs are both effectively affirmations of consent, and only the authorized cardholder is contractually allowed to consent. If you deny that you gave that consent the process should be the same either way, you sign an affidavit to that effect if the CC/bank wants you to. The difference is that not just anyone can draw an X on a terminal after skimming your card to pretend to be you. They need an extra piece of information to do so. They are still breaking the law by using your card, and it's still something the processor has insurance against.
- michaelmrose 10y ago
  Signatures are absolutely worthless as far as preventing fraud. In the first place the proposed thief has access to the signature in question, signatures on electronic pads are horrid, and cashiers aren't trained handwriting experts. Basically anyone could make a signature enough like the signature visible on the back of the card on the electronic card to be no worse than the average signature as far as the average person verifying it is concerned. This is why zero fucks are given regarding how authentic your signature looks even if they look at your card. The 2 things that do prevent fraud are verifying id and cards that have pictures of the user on them.
- stephenr 10y ago
  I've watched while my wife, at a Thai bank, is told by the cashier at the counter "I'm sorry, your signature doesn't match close enough, it should look like this <shows signature-on-file> can you try it again?" when filling in a withdrawal slip for 200K (about $7K USD). I had something similar years ago in Australia. I went into a branch, my signature had changed a LOT, and I couldn't match the old one. So they promptly updated my signature on file, based purely on the fact that I had my card and knew the pin (I don't even remember showing them my ID).

nolok 10y ago

Thailand is a massively cash based society, especially with that whole "nobody pay their taxes" thing. Credit card are mostly used to take money out of the atm.

stephenr 10y ago
Yeah, I'm aware of that aspect, but I've never been anywhere else where the staff can't follow a simple instruction (No signature required) because they are so ingrained that card === signature. Also, for the younger generation (i.e. 20s/30s) I think credit cards are much more popular than their parents generation - my sister-in-law and her husband (both Thai, so not influenced by western approach) use cards most places they can, while my mother in law regularly has anything up to 100K THB in her handbag.
- dawnerd 10y ago
  Canada is like that. Few times it's printed out a signature slip the cashier looked as if I just tried to rob them.

chmars 10y ago

Signing actually helps against fraud: Signatures can be compared, PINs cannot – and you can be made liable … :(

gioele 10y ago
> Signing actually helps against fraud: Signatures can be compared, PINs cannot – and you can be made liable … :( cough There is specimen of your signature on the back of the card cough
Viper007Bond 10y ago
No one looks at those. I always scribble, never doing my actual signature. Hell on those digital pads, I literally just draw a horizontal line. Never had a single problem.
stormbrew 10y ago
I don't think that there's an actual legal difference (though IANAL) here. Signatures and PINs are both effectively affirmations of consent, and only the authorized cardholder is contractually allowed to consent. If you deny that you gave that consent the process should be the same either way, you sign an affidavit to that effect if the CC/bank wants you to. The difference is that not just anyone can draw an X on a terminal after skimming your card to pretend to be you. They need an extra piece of information to do so. They are still breaking the law by using your card, and it's still something the processor has insurance against.
michaelmrose 10y ago
Signatures are absolutely worthless as far as preventing fraud. In the first place the proposed thief has access to the signature in question, signatures on electronic pads are horrid, and cashiers aren't trained handwriting experts. Basically anyone could make a signature enough like the signature visible on the back of the card on the electronic card to be no worse than the average signature as far as the average person verifying it is concerned. This is why zero fucks are given regarding how authentic your signature looks even if they look at your card. The 2 things that do prevent fraud are verifying id and cards that have pictures of the user on them.
stephenr 10y ago
I've watched while my wife, at a Thai bank, is told by the cashier at the counter "I'm sorry, your signature doesn't match close enough, it should look like this <shows signature-on-file> can you try it again?" when filling in a withdrawal slip for 200K (about $7K USD). I had something similar years ago in Australia. I went into a branch, my signature had changed a LOT, and I couldn't match the old one. So they promptly updated my signature on file, based purely on the fact that I had my card and knew the pin (I don't even remember showing them my ID).