4 ms·

Trademarks must be defended or they risk being lost. It seems to me (a legal layperson) that this is not only a reasonable action, but also, unfortunately, a ne

Trademarks must be defended or they risk being lost. It seems to me (a legal layperson) that this is not only a reasonable action, but also, unfortunately, a necessary one.

xkcd-sucks 10y ago
Could the trademark be licensed for $1 or something?
- nickff 10y ago
  Could be licensed in exchange for a link on the front page to the Jupyter website; there is no requirement for copyright or trademark owners to offer licenses to all potential users for the same price.
ubernostrum 10y ago
Too many people use this as an excuse for enforcement behaviors that go well beyond what's necessary to maintain a trademark. It's possible, for example, to begin the conversation politely, offer to work together to find a way to properly license the mark for use, etc. without resorting to harsh-sounding demands. But nobody does this, and nobody who uses harsh demands (or threats, or other extreme tactics) ever faces any consequences because someone on the internet will defend them with a "well, trademark law required that, you know".
- pyre 10y ago
  Here's a good example of C&D letter that isn't written with going on the "all out offensive" in mind: https://brokenpianoforpresident.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/jd-letter-entire-big1.jpg https://brokenpianoforpresident.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/...
  - jasongrout 10y ago
    Thanks. I really like that letter!
- jasongrout 10y ago
  (disclaimer: I'm on the Jupyter steering council, but speaking unofficially...) Very good point about wanting to work together. And we definitely do want to work together with people (and we have a good relationship with William in particular). Another relevant part of the message to William and to the community is: "We are currently discussing in the steering council guidelines for proper use of the Jupyter name (started in part by your inquiry a few weeks ago). We hope to have such guidelines published soon. In the interim, we ask that you (and others) not use the name Jupyter in a domain name. We feel that this avoids confusion in the community and is being fair to all who have inquired about such matters." So we (Jupyter steering council and community) are also trying to figure out a good policy - we (speaking generally) want to be conservative and avoid confusion until such policies are in place, though.
- vacri 10y ago
  > without resorting to harsh-sounding demands. But nobody does this The example in the article was polite, especially given the context that there was still some discussion to be had on Jupyter's side about the the issue.
  - mcphage 10y ago
    "we ask that you take the domain name down immediately" isn't especially polite. It isn't incredibly rude, either, but I wouldn't hold it up as an example of a polite request.
    - jasongrout 10y ago
      Agreed. I wish we would have phrased it more congenially, especially given William's good relationship with the project already.
      - williamstein 10y ago
        It didn't feel very polite; when I read the message I was outside picking blackberries with my 7-year old nephew, and "immediately" was impossible to comply with.
        jasongrout 10y ago
        Yes, I'm sorry it was phrased as "immediately", which was unnecessarily harsh.
mbreese 10y ago
Which would make sense if the Jupyter project had a trademark, but it's not clear to me if they ever registered it. However, it would probably be considered a common law trademark.
- williamstein 10y ago
  It doesn't seem like they have registered it. Last year Fernando wrote that he hadn't (https://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/ipython-dev/2015-March/016231.html https://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/ipython-dev/2015-March/0162...) and searching TESS yields no results (http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4806:ztg92x.1.1 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4806...). That said, I am much more interested in what the Jupyter devs really want rather than any legal questions.

Trademarks must be defended or they risk being lost. It seems to me (a legal layperson) that this is not only a reasonable action, but also, unfortunately, a necessary one.

xkcd-sucks 10y ago

Could the trademark be licensed for $1 or something?

nickff 10y ago
Could be licensed in exchange for a link on the front page to the Jupyter website; there is no requirement for copyright or trademark owners to offer licenses to all potential users for the same price.

ubernostrum 10y ago

Too many people use this as an excuse for enforcement behaviors that go well beyond what's necessary to maintain a trademark. It's possible, for example, to begin the conversation politely, offer to work together to find a way to properly license the mark for use, etc. without resorting to harsh-sounding demands. But nobody does this, and nobody who uses harsh demands (or threats, or other extreme tactics) ever faces any consequences because someone on the internet will defend them with a "well, trademark law required that, you know".

pyre 10y ago
Here's a good example of C&D letter that isn't written with going on the "all out offensive" in mind: https://brokenpianoforpresident.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/jd-letter-entire-big1.jpg https://brokenpianoforpresident.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/...
- jasongrout 10y ago
  Thanks. I really like that letter!
jasongrout 10y ago
(disclaimer: I'm on the Jupyter steering council, but speaking unofficially...) Very good point about wanting to work together. And we definitely do want to work together with people (and we have a good relationship with William in particular). Another relevant part of the message to William and to the community is: "We are currently discussing in the steering council guidelines for proper use of the Jupyter name (started in part by your inquiry a few weeks ago). We hope to have such guidelines published soon. In the interim, we ask that you (and others) not use the name Jupyter in a domain name. We feel that this avoids confusion in the community and is being fair to all who have inquired about such matters." So we (Jupyter steering council and community) are also trying to figure out a good policy - we (speaking generally) want to be conservative and avoid confusion until such policies are in place, though.
vacri 10y ago
> without resorting to harsh-sounding demands. But nobody does this The example in the article was polite, especially given the context that there was still some discussion to be had on Jupyter's side about the the issue.
- mcphage 10y ago
  "we ask that you take the domain name down immediately" isn't especially polite. It isn't incredibly rude, either, but I wouldn't hold it up as an example of a polite request.
  - jasongrout 10y ago
    Agreed. I wish we would have phrased it more congenially, especially given William's good relationship with the project already.
    - williamstein 10y ago
      It didn't feel very polite; when I read the message I was outside picking blackberries with my 7-year old nephew, and "immediately" was impossible to comply with.
      - jasongrout 10y ago
        Yes, I'm sorry it was phrased as "immediately", which was unnecessarily harsh.

mbreese 10y ago

Which would make sense if the Jupyter project had a trademark, but it's not clear to me if they ever registered it. However, it would probably be considered a common law trademark.

williamstein 10y ago
It doesn't seem like they have registered it. Last year Fernando wrote that he hadn't (https://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/ipython-dev/2015-March/016231.html https://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/ipython-dev/2015-March/0162...) and searching TESS yields no results (http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4806:ztg92x.1.1 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4806...). That said, I am much more interested in what the Jupyter devs really want rather than any legal questions.