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> when faced with death, we'll try anything that offers any sort of hope, even just a slight delay Many people opt-out of aggressive cancer treatments that may

> when faced with death, we'll try anything that offers any sort of hope, even just a slight delay Many people opt-out of aggressive cancer treatments that may add months on to their lives, and increasingly euthanasia is a (legal) alternative to letting medical conditions run their course. There are situations where ending things early can be one of the valid choices made available to you. http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/200381-the-so-called-psychotically-depressed-person-who-tries-to-kill-herself http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/200381-the-so-called-psychot...

mikeash 10y ago
That's true, but I think there's a big difference between a long-standing condition and a brief crisis. I love the quote you linked to and I think it does a great job at giving people some perspective on what suicidal people are thinking. I just think the analogy falls apart once you start digging into it. Jumping out of the towers was a last-ditch attempt to survive, not just a better way to die.
- goatforce5 10y ago
  > Jumping out of the towers was a last-ditch attempt to survive I'm not sure how it's possible to come to that conclusion. (And to be clear: I wasn't originally trying to suggest that everyone that fell from the WTC made a decision to jump. I think it's probably fair to say almost everyone that fell was simply trying to get away from the smoke by leaning out of windows, etc. )
  - mikeash 10y ago
    I'm not sure how it's not. Certain death in the smoke and fire versus a slim chance of survival if you jump, seems like the rational choice in horrible circumstances.
    - xhedley 10y ago
      I don't think it was about survival chance. Death by heat sufficient to kill you would surely be extremely painful. Death by fall impact from high enough would at least be quick. As either option was clearly fatal, jumping wasn't a deliberate choice for death and hence wasn't suicide.

mikeash 10y ago

That's true, but I think there's a big difference between a long-standing condition and a brief crisis. I love the quote you linked to and I think it does a great job at giving people some perspective on what suicidal people are thinking. I just think the analogy falls apart once you start digging into it. Jumping out of the towers was a last-ditch attempt to survive, not just a better way to die.

goatforce5 10y ago
> Jumping out of the towers was a last-ditch attempt to survive I'm not sure how it's possible to come to that conclusion. (And to be clear: I wasn't originally trying to suggest that everyone that fell from the WTC made a decision to jump. I think it's probably fair to say almost everyone that fell was simply trying to get away from the smoke by leaning out of windows, etc. )
- mikeash 10y ago
  I'm not sure how it's not. Certain death in the smoke and fire versus a slim chance of survival if you jump, seems like the rational choice in horrible circumstances.
  - xhedley 10y ago
    I don't think it was about survival chance. Death by heat sufficient to kill you would surely be extremely painful. Death by fall impact from high enough would at least be quick. As either option was clearly fatal, jumping wasn't a deliberate choice for death and hence wasn't suicide.