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> If I had to be in serious pain every day but could keep doing many things I would rather keep living with the pain. Scratch that: ~~~No, you (most probably)

> If I had to be in serious pain every day but could keep doing many things I would rather keep living with the pain. Scratch that: ~~~No, you (most probably) wouldn't.~~~ EDIT: this post is about severe chronic pain. Think cancer, or a serious toothache which lasts for years. And it's not meant to discuss the specific situation of the parent! I'm talking in general. I also agree that not 100% patients with severe chronic pain will consider suicide, however the percentage of people considering suicide in such group is much higher than in the rest of the population. You may believe so right now, but that's totally irrelevant: just as you were unable to imagine "how much pain it was possible to feel" before your experience, you are unable to imagine what a serious, chronic pain can do to you. Chronic pain is a lot like depression: there's no relief, no hope, nothing you can do to ever feel any better. Assuming that you'd be able to do anything - and that doing that would even make you happy - is... well, very improbable, to say the least. > Anyway the point is, not everyone is afraid of pain and suffering. Especially not to the point that suicide would even be considered. Sure, it's easy to be brave in the face of the unknown. It's a lot harder to be brave once you see what "chronic pain" really means. And there is no notion of being brave (or not) once it actually happens to you - there's only despair and suffering. Really, only that. Nothing else, at all. We have a lot of pain management methods at our disposal now and, in many cases, it's possible to reduce the symptoms and make the patient feel "well enough". Without such help, however, it's only a matter of time before (most of) the patient considers suicide - no matter how brave and "suffering accepting" he was before.

DominikR 10y ago
I heavily dislike such absolute statements, especially if they are unfounded. It is merely your opinion that he wouldn't keep going with chronic pain, he has a different opinion. There's no way for us to verify yours or his claim.
- klibertp 10y ago
  Sorry, but that patients with chronic pain are much more likely to consider suicide is an easily googlable fact. That chronic pain links with depression, which further reduces probability of "would rather keep living" is, too. Also, the "(most probably)" part of that sentence in my previous comment is there specifically to show that I'm not making absolute statements...
  - Practicality 10y ago
    The fact that given a population of people more of them will consider suicide with chronic pain does not mean ALL people will. Some of us won't.
    - klibertp 10y ago
      True, of course. I edited my post above.
Practicality 10y ago
I've torn the ligaments in my ankle and I've been in chronic pain every day for the last 12 years. Honestly, it doesn't bother me. (I mean, it hurts a lot and given the choice to be alive AND have it gone, I would prefer it gone, but, meh) It bothers people around me that I limp though. Oh well. I gave the example of acute pain because that was more challenging to me than the chronic.
- deleted 10y ago
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- abandonliberty 10y ago
  Interesting. This is a complex issue. I have those types of issues too. Most of us do once we get old enough. They don't really bother me. Like yours, I can overcome them. Almost everyone does. I suspect if either of us had trained all our lives to be, and wanted to be professional runners, it would bother us greatly.
coldtea 10y ago
>I also agree that not 100% patients with severe chronic pain will consider suicide, however the percentage of people considering suicide in such group is much higher than in the rest of the population. You may believe so right now, but that's totally irrelevant It doesn't matter if the "the percentage of people considering suicide in such group is much higher than in the rest of the population" if that percentage is still small within such a group. E.g. if 1% kills themselves in the general population, while 2% or even 5% kill themselves in such a group, that's still 95%, an overwhelming majority, that do not. In which case, what the parent thinks now is not "totally irrelevant" but mostly correct. >And there is no notion of being brave (or not) once it actually happens to you - there's only despair and suffering. Really, only that. Nothing else, at all. I've seen people with chronic pain (including long-term fatal cases) that are not just "despair and suffering". Including people who have dreams and follow them (creative work etc) despite the pain.
- klibertp 10y ago
  We're talking about considering suicide! Going through with it is a completely different matter, due to very many factors, some outlined in the OP, another sometimes being physically unable to do it... > I've seen people with chronic pain (including long-term fatal cases) that are not just "despair and suffering". Including people who have dreams and follow them (creative work etc) despite the pain. Without any kind of pain management? With severe, chronic pain? Well, what I witnessed may have been outliers, but once you hear a person you care for begging to "please, just make it stop" every time she was able to actually articulate some words instead of screaming in pain... that leaves a mark. What I'm saying is that there is - possibly very different for different people - a threshold of (pain-intensity times pain-time-length) above which everyone will be considering suicide. That the people you know are below such threshold doesn't mean it's not there. Having seen people way above it I really can't accept people telling me that they'd rather "live with the pain". What they mean is they'd rather live with bearable pain, which is OK; however, there is such a thing as an unbearable pain and I don't believe there is anyone who'd like to live with it.
  - coldtea 10y ago

DominikR 10y ago

I heavily dislike such absolute statements, especially if they are unfounded. It is merely your opinion that he wouldn't keep going with chronic pain, he has a different opinion. There's no way for us to verify yours or his claim.

klibertp 10y ago
Sorry, but that patients with chronic pain are much more likely to consider suicide is an easily googlable fact. That chronic pain links with depression, which further reduces probability of "would rather keep living" is, too. Also, the "(most probably)" part of that sentence in my previous comment is there specifically to show that I'm not making absolute statements...
- Practicality 10y ago
  The fact that given a population of people more of them will consider suicide with chronic pain does not mean ALL people will. Some of us won't.
  - klibertp 10y ago
    True, of course. I edited my post above.

Practicality 10y ago

I've torn the ligaments in my ankle and I've been in chronic pain every day for the last 12 years. Honestly, it doesn't bother me. (I mean, it hurts a lot and given the choice to be alive AND have it gone, I would prefer it gone, but, meh) It bothers people around me that I limp though. Oh well. I gave the example of acute pain because that was more challenging to me than the chronic.

deleted 10y ago
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abandonliberty 10y ago
Interesting. This is a complex issue. I have those types of issues too. Most of us do once we get old enough. They don't really bother me. Like yours, I can overcome them. Almost everyone does. I suspect if either of us had trained all our lives to be, and wanted to be professional runners, it would bother us greatly.

coldtea 10y ago

>I also agree that not 100% patients with severe chronic pain will consider suicide, however the percentage of people considering suicide in such group is much higher than in the rest of the population. You may believe so right now, but that's totally irrelevant It doesn't matter if the "the percentage of people considering suicide in such group is much higher than in the rest of the population" if that percentage is still small within such a group. E.g. if 1% kills themselves in the general population, while 2% or even 5% kill themselves in such a group, that's still 95%, an overwhelming majority, that do not. In which case, what the parent thinks now is not "totally irrelevant" but mostly correct. >And there is no notion of being brave (or not) once it actually happens to you - there's only despair and suffering. Really, only that. Nothing else, at all. I've seen people with chronic pain (including long-term fatal cases) that are not just "despair and suffering". Including people who have dreams and follow them (creative work etc) despite the pain.

klibertp 10y ago
We're talking about considering suicide! Going through with it is a completely different matter, due to very many factors, some outlined in the OP, another sometimes being physically unable to do it... > I've seen people with chronic pain (including long-term fatal cases) that are not just "despair and suffering". Including people who have dreams and follow them (creative work etc) despite the pain. Without any kind of pain management? With severe, chronic pain? Well, what I witnessed may have been outliers, but once you hear a person you care for begging to "please, just make it stop" every time she was able to actually articulate some words instead of screaming in pain... that leaves a mark. What I'm saying is that there is - possibly very different for different people - a threshold of (pain-intensity times pain-time-length) above which everyone will be considering suicide. That the people you know are below such threshold doesn't mean it's not there. Having seen people way above it I really can't accept people telling me that they'd rather "live with the pain". What they mean is they'd rather live with bearable pain, which is OK; however, there is such a thing as an unbearable pain and I don't believe there is anyone who'd like to live with it.
- coldtea 10y ago