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A mistake and an insight. The idea that white men have the highest suicide rate is misleading - they have the highest rate of success, which is very likely bec

A mistake and an insight. The idea that white men have the highest suicide rate is misleading - they have the highest rate of success, which is very likely because they are the most likely to own guns, which are far and away the most effective and effortless way to commit suicide. Effortlessness is important, because depression makes planning so difficult. FWIW I'd really appreciate it if we could not turn this into a debate about gun control. The insight, of course, is that Elliot Smith didn't have a drug problem, he was looking for a drug solution. This is an incredibly accurate description of addiction. The saying in AA is "If alcohol didn't do anything for me, I'd never have let it do anything to me". Drugs and alcohol are a solution to the underlying problem, one in which we simply can't feel ok the way others can. Of course, they are a solution with horrible side effects, and one that eventually stops working. Many members of AA describe getting sober because the drugs and alcohol weren't working anymore, only to become suicidal and realize that the drugs and alcohol were only symptoms of a much deeper problem.

intoverflow2 10y ago
> which is very likely because they are the most likely to own guns America is not the world
- onetwotree 10y ago
  I think the data were taken among Americans (they included Native Americans). You're right though, and looking at data from other countries with stronger gun restrictions would be an interesting way to check this hypothesis.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    In England you can use the Office for National Statistics data sets. These are good quality, and they're very clear about what is or isn't counted as a death by suicide. http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2014registrations http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdea... You can also use the Public Health England "Fingertips" datasets which breaksdown the data a bit more. Here's the main Fingertips site: http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/ http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/ And here's the Fingertips mental health stuff: http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health And here's the Fingertips suicide stuff: http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health/profile/suicide http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health/pro... Currently the ratio of deaths by suicide for men:women is something like 4:1 or 3:1, and we think that's because (as you've said) men tend to use more lethal methods. (Although we've seen a really worrying increase in lethality of method in women in the UK). Go careful when comparing the UK stats with the US. I think we count different things. For example: a death that would be counted as a suicide in someone over the age of 15 is not counted as a suicide in someone under the age of 15. I don't think the US does that.

intoverflow2 10y ago

> which is very likely because they are the most likely to own guns America is not the world

onetwotree 10y ago
I think the data were taken among Americans (they included Native Americans). You're right though, and looking at data from other countries with stronger gun restrictions would be an interesting way to check this hypothesis.
- DanBC 10y ago
  In England you can use the Office for National Statistics data sets. These are good quality, and they're very clear about what is or isn't counted as a death by suicide. http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2014registrations http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdea... You can also use the Public Health England "Fingertips" datasets which breaksdown the data a bit more. Here's the main Fingertips site: http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/ http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/ And here's the Fingertips mental health stuff: http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health And here's the Fingertips suicide stuff: http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health/profile/suicide http://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health/pro... Currently the ratio of deaths by suicide for men:women is something like 4:1 or 3:1, and we think that's because (as you've said) men tend to use more lethal methods. (Although we've seen a really worrying increase in lethality of method in women in the UK). Go careful when comparing the UK stats with the US. I think we count different things. For example: a death that would be counted as a suicide in someone over the age of 15 is not counted as a suicide in someone under the age of 15. I don't think the US does that.