4 ms·

It’s not that important a point, but legal pads are a very US phenomena. I’m German and I have never ever seen a yellow pad like that in person. The current not

by arrrg 10y ago

It’s not that important a point, but legal pads are a very US phenomena. I’m German and I have never ever seen a yellow pad like that in person. The current notes icon (with white paper) is much more in line with the note pads you would encounter in Germany. Paper people write on to take notes is typically just white. Maybe bound with a spiral on the left or top (and perforated paper to tear off), maybe glued together at the top. Maybe internationalization was a consideration here? Yellow paper doesn’t read as anything recognizable internationally. (Yellow sticky notes are probably internationally known, though.) My overall point would also be that taste colors opinions in this case. Or taste at least leaks into them. I think it’s important to be very careful with that and to try and avoid to let taste color too much of what you think. (My taste is very different from that of the author and as such I think many of his points are just plain wrong-footed. There certainly are some good points in there, but taste plays too much of a role.)

realusername 10y ago
Oh that make sense then ! I never understood why most of the notes apps on my smartphone were yellow and not white, I found it bizarre and assumed it was some kind of fashion, it must be international differences then.
- pmarreck 10y ago
  for anyone else non-US but curious: Photos of typical yellow pads: https://www.google.com/search?q=yellow+legal+pad&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=yellow+legal+pad&tbm=isch History of the yellow legal pad: http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/May-June-2005/scene_snider_mayjun05.msp http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/May-June-2005/scene_snide...
  - ludwik 10y ago
    Wow, I've never seen those in real life (I live in Poland). I know most of the results are photos, but I always encountered those in the form of icons, so my brain is still telling me that I'm looking at icons. It's a weird feeling ;)
    - pmarreck 10y ago
      Certainly a peculiar regional difference, they are ubiquitous in the States. I might not have one in my house, but I grew up around them, they are usually clipped into a clipboard.
gurkendoktor 10y ago
I'm German as well, and I also feel that only Stickies are commonly yellow. But Stickies.app on OS X 10.11 has retained its yellow icon, and it actually makes it easier to tell Notes.app and Stickies.app apart now. (Yes, Stickies.app still has its fans :P) I think the bigger issue with the new Notes icon is the weak branding. Previously, you could tell Notes and Reminders apart by just looking at the colours. This was really important when you told Siri to "remind me to buy milk tomorrow" - you would either see a bright-yellow note[1], or a black-red-white reminder[2]. Now, everything is "almost white", making it really hard to tell what content lives in which app. (Notes and Reminders have a lot of conceptual overlap, especially now that Notes supports checklists.) [1] http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2013/03/siri-notes-100027681-medium.png http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2013/03/siri-not... [2] http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/location-reminders-siri.jpg http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/location-...
CatsoCatsoCatso 10y ago
For me the old yellow colour implies that the notes taken within the app are for easy disposal and will be poorly organised - just like how yellow paper is used primarily for quick throw-away notes and scribbles in reality (at least here in the UK). The Notes app is far better than that, the white it uses now implies a more permanent organised feel which better reflects the app. The texts I store within it are important to me, they're not final documents but something I'd treat better than a disposable scribble on a yellow-pad. With the app's formatting, cloud and folder abilities this seems a good fit.
- alex_hitchins 10y ago
  Where do you buy your notebooks? I've never come across yellow paper except in US media. I'd always assumed it was dyed yellow to hide poor quality paper. Is there any truth in this?
  - Arnt 10y ago
    Never seen yellow notebooks, but yellow paper, sure. That yellow looks like the colour of the A4 pads I bought at the university bookshop in Norway.
    - alex_hitchins 10y ago
      The only yellow paper I remember seeing was when I did a dunning cycle application for accounts dept. Depending on the age of the debt, it would either be white, fluorescent yellow or florescent orange. I remember thinking this was a clever way to get your invoice noticed. Perhaps yellow pads are the future.
  - CatsoCatsoCatso 10y ago
    I've not had a yellow notebook for a long time, but in my view right now I have 5 stacks of yellow sticky-pads (aka post-it notes), some of which are A5, notebook sized. When I buy cheap recycled-paper notebooks the paper is often off-white and has a yellow look to it. At least to me; yellow implies disposability or cheapness.
Luc 10y ago
To me the current icon looks a lot like a Rhodia notepad with the typical orange cover folded over at the top: https://www.stylo.ca/fr/produits/Rhodia/Basics-(no.18)/430_2276_0001.html https://www.stylo.ca/fr/produits/Rhodia/Basics-(no.18)/430_2... Not sure how well known that brand is outside of Europe.
- arrrg 10y ago
  I would guess that stationery is not extremely globalized as of yet. I’m honestly not sure why, though. It seems easy enough to mass produce and export everywhere. Maybe historic standards (different paper formats, different rulings) have created trade barriers that prevent globalization. My brand new notepad (DIN A5, 5mm grid, spiral bound at the top) for my board game evening today doesn’t say where it was made, just that it’s from a German company (it’s labelled predominantly in German, though somewhat prominently also in English – language designated as “UK” – and Turkish, as well as French, Italian and Dutch in much smaller print). Googling the company doesn’t tell me where and even whether they produce the notepads. Maybe they just relabel someone else’s notepads and resell them? All I know that the text on their website makes me want to vomit: “Kyome’s target group is primarily women between 30 and 50 who want to combine the practical with the attractive. SoHos (Small Office or Home Office) are increasingly finding their place in living rooms and kitchens. For this reason, kyome products are surprising, as according to the brand promise, with nice, clever ideas, are pleasantly functional and a long way from grey, everyday office life.” Firstly that’s some really bad English, secondly that’s insultingly sexist. But back to the topic at hand: I think the important point is that white paper with some ruling (lines or grid, with margins or without) and bound in some way (left or top, spiral or glue) is a widespread internationally recognizable look for notepads. The details then don’t matter that much.
  - groovy2shoes 10y ago
    I don't see anything particularly sexist nor insulting about a company having a target demographic. Most companies that sell products do. That said, I was thinking along similar lines a few weeks ago. I was at a home improvement store browsing the power tools for a jig saw when I came across a hot pink drill kit. "Hot pink?" I thought to myself. "Did they see that the number of women interested in home improvement is rising and figure that women are simple enough to fall for that? To buy your shitty drill just because it's pink?" Feeling grumpy, I told my mom about it over lunch the next day. My mom bought an old foreclosed-on house in BFE Appalachia last year, and took it upon herself to renovate it -- it went from complete, unlivable dump to nice, cozy home as she replaced the floors, the ceilings, the roof, the cabinets, all of the bathroom fixtures, all of the doors, etc. My mom is no girly-girl and has never been afraid to get her hands dirty, and she's physically stronger than most men I know (including myself). To my surprise, upon hearing about the pink drill, she declared, "I want one!" Let me tell you, my mother is far from simple. Beyond being strong, dedicated, and resourceful, she's also very intelligent. I know that she knows that the company doesn't actually care about women doing home improvement and is just trying to make a quick buck by "tapping" a market that's already been tapped by your typical orange or yellow or black unisex drill. But you know what? If you like something, you just like it, even if it happens to be stereotypical for you to like it. Stereotypes exist for a reason, and businesses would not be constantly wielding them in attempts to appeal to their target demographics if they didn't work in the market. There's clearly no ill-intent behind it, just business. If I were out buying eyeglasses and saw an advert for some new sort of lens or coating to suit people who stare at computer screens all day, and the advert featured a nerd typing furiously on a computer with a fake lightsaber mounted on the wall and a set of D&D books on the shelf, should I be insulted? Or should I be glad that someone is finally making glasses for me? Chances are, I'd be excited. I might even wait around for a bit to see if I can find a new cleric for my party...
vacri 10y ago
We don't do yellow pads in my country either, but I still find the yellow icon with writing on it ('notes') more evocative than the white icon with no writing ('lack of notes'). If you were to show me the flat white icon without any context, I might not even get it right.
lloeki 10y ago
France here, and the new one feels so much better. I definitely viewed the old one as a U.S. centric thing (similar to units).
- oblio 10y ago
  Yeah, I think it's an US - European thing. The parent comment mentioned Germany, you mentioned France, another comment mentioned Italy, I'm from Romania and we also use white notepads.
  - cesarb 10y ago
    As another datapoint, I don't think I've ever seen a yellow one here in Brazil (other than paper so old that it has turned yellow from age).
    - mantas 10y ago
      Lithuanian there. No yellow pads in sight. White(-ish) all the way.
- zeveb 10y ago
  > France here, and the new one feels so much better. I definitely viewed the old one as a U.S. centric thing (similar to units). That's a bit funny, since it's France's revolutionary units which have been imposed on almost the entire world.
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
I'm an American and I've certainly seen plenty of white paper pads glued together at the top like the dude complains about.
tigroferoce 10y ago
I was about to make the same comment. Here in Italy we do not have the yellow notepads.
donatj 10y ago
This and it's subsequent comments are the weirdest, most unexpected thing in here to me. I'm an American who's worked in offices the last 10+ years and I have stacks and stacks of yellow legal pads from years of note taking in my closet. I think it is probably to do with it being cheap recycled discolored paper that was cheaper to dye than bleach. Might be better for the environment than bleach as well. I switched to dot paper about 4 years ago, though, and I'm relatively happy with the decision.
- noir_lord 10y ago
  The yellow pads are available in the UK but I've never seen them in the wild, I use 5mm squared A4 pads as they are the cheapest I've been able to find without buying an insane bulk order.
- rhino369 10y ago
  It's more expensive to die it yellow than bleach it white. And yellow paper is less recyclable. Some say yellow is better because it doesn't change color over time. I personally prefer yellow, but it's certainly odd. My law firm in the USA uses white now.

by arrrg 10y ago

realusername 10y ago

Oh that make sense then ! I never understood why most of the notes apps on my smartphone were yellow and not white, I found it bizarre and assumed it was some kind of fashion, it must be international differences then.

pmarreck 10y ago
for anyone else non-US but curious: Photos of typical yellow pads: https://www.google.com/search?q=yellow+legal+pad&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=yellow+legal+pad&tbm=isch History of the yellow legal pad: http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/May-June-2005/scene_snider_mayjun05.msp http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/May-June-2005/scene_snide...
- ludwik 10y ago
  Wow, I've never seen those in real life (I live in Poland). I know most of the results are photos, but I always encountered those in the form of icons, so my brain is still telling me that I'm looking at icons. It's a weird feeling ;)
  - pmarreck 10y ago
    Certainly a peculiar regional difference, they are ubiquitous in the States. I might not have one in my house, but I grew up around them, they are usually clipped into a clipboard.

gurkendoktor 10y ago

I'm German as well, and I also feel that only Stickies are commonly yellow. But Stickies.app on OS X 10.11 has retained its yellow icon, and it actually makes it easier to tell Notes.app and Stickies.app apart now. (Yes, Stickies.app still has its fans :P) I think the bigger issue with the new Notes icon is the weak branding. Previously, you could tell Notes and Reminders apart by just looking at the colours. This was really important when you told Siri to "remind me to buy milk tomorrow" - you would either see a bright-yellow note[1], or a black-red-white reminder[2]. Now, everything is "almost white", making it really hard to tell what content lives in which app. (Notes and Reminders have a lot of conceptual overlap, especially now that Notes supports checklists.) [1] http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2013/03/siri-notes-100027681-medium.png http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2013/03/siri-not... [2] http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/location-reminders-siri.jpg http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/location-...

CatsoCatsoCatso 10y ago

For me the old yellow colour implies that the notes taken within the app are for easy disposal and will be poorly organised - just like how yellow paper is used primarily for quick throw-away notes and scribbles in reality (at least here in the UK). The Notes app is far better than that, the white it uses now implies a more permanent organised feel which better reflects the app. The texts I store within it are important to me, they're not final documents but something I'd treat better than a disposable scribble on a yellow-pad. With the app's formatting, cloud and folder abilities this seems a good fit.

alex_hitchins 10y ago
Where do you buy your notebooks? I've never come across yellow paper except in US media. I'd always assumed it was dyed yellow to hide poor quality paper. Is there any truth in this?
- Arnt 10y ago
  Never seen yellow notebooks, but yellow paper, sure. That yellow looks like the colour of the A4 pads I bought at the university bookshop in Norway.
  - alex_hitchins 10y ago
    The only yellow paper I remember seeing was when I did a dunning cycle application for accounts dept. Depending on the age of the debt, it would either be white, fluorescent yellow or florescent orange. I remember thinking this was a clever way to get your invoice noticed. Perhaps yellow pads are the future.
- CatsoCatsoCatso 10y ago
  I've not had a yellow notebook for a long time, but in my view right now I have 5 stacks of yellow sticky-pads (aka post-it notes), some of which are A5, notebook sized. When I buy cheap recycled-paper notebooks the paper is often off-white and has a yellow look to it. At least to me; yellow implies disposability or cheapness.

Luc 10y ago

To me the current icon looks a lot like a Rhodia notepad with the typical orange cover folded over at the top: https://www.stylo.ca/fr/produits/Rhodia/Basics-(no.18)/430_2276_0001.html https://www.stylo.ca/fr/produits/Rhodia/Basics-(no.18)/430_2... Not sure how well known that brand is outside of Europe.

arrrg 10y ago
I would guess that stationery is not extremely globalized as of yet. I’m honestly not sure why, though. It seems easy enough to mass produce and export everywhere. Maybe historic standards (different paper formats, different rulings) have created trade barriers that prevent globalization. My brand new notepad (DIN A5, 5mm grid, spiral bound at the top) for my board game evening today doesn’t say where it was made, just that it’s from a German company (it’s labelled predominantly in German, though somewhat prominently also in English – language designated as “UK” – and Turkish, as well as French, Italian and Dutch in much smaller print). Googling the company doesn’t tell me where and even whether they produce the notepads. Maybe they just relabel someone else’s notepads and resell them? All I know that the text on their website makes me want to vomit: “Kyome’s target group is primarily women between 30 and 50 who want to combine the practical with the attractive. SoHos (Small Office or Home Office) are increasingly finding their place in living rooms and kitchens. For this reason, kyome products are surprising, as according to the brand promise, with nice, clever ideas, are pleasantly functional and a long way from grey, everyday office life.” Firstly that’s some really bad English, secondly that’s insultingly sexist. But back to the topic at hand: I think the important point is that white paper with some ruling (lines or grid, with margins or without) and bound in some way (left or top, spiral or glue) is a widespread internationally recognizable look for notepads. The details then don’t matter that much.
- groovy2shoes 10y ago
  I don't see anything particularly sexist nor insulting about a company having a target demographic. Most companies that sell products do. That said, I was thinking along similar lines a few weeks ago. I was at a home improvement store browsing the power tools for a jig saw when I came across a hot pink drill kit. "Hot pink?" I thought to myself. "Did they see that the number of women interested in home improvement is rising and figure that women are simple enough to fall for that? To buy your shitty drill just because it's pink?" Feeling grumpy, I told my mom about it over lunch the next day. My mom bought an old foreclosed-on house in BFE Appalachia last year, and took it upon herself to renovate it -- it went from complete, unlivable dump to nice, cozy home as she replaced the floors, the ceilings, the roof, the cabinets, all of the bathroom fixtures, all of the doors, etc. My mom is no girly-girl and has never been afraid to get her hands dirty, and she's physically stronger than most men I know (including myself). To my surprise, upon hearing about the pink drill, she declared, "I want one!" Let me tell you, my mother is far from simple. Beyond being strong, dedicated, and resourceful, she's also very intelligent. I know that she knows that the company doesn't actually care about women doing home improvement and is just trying to make a quick buck by "tapping" a market that's already been tapped by your typical orange or yellow or black unisex drill. But you know what? If you like something, you just like it, even if it happens to be stereotypical for you to like it. Stereotypes exist for a reason, and businesses would not be constantly wielding them in attempts to appeal to their target demographics if they didn't work in the market. There's clearly no ill-intent behind it, just business. If I were out buying eyeglasses and saw an advert for some new sort of lens or coating to suit people who stare at computer screens all day, and the advert featured a nerd typing furiously on a computer with a fake lightsaber mounted on the wall and a set of D&D books on the shelf, should I be insulted? Or should I be glad that someone is finally making glasses for me? Chances are, I'd be excited. I might even wait around for a bit to see if I can find a new cleric for my party...

vacri 10y ago

We don't do yellow pads in my country either, but I still find the yellow icon with writing on it ('notes') more evocative than the white icon with no writing ('lack of notes'). If you were to show me the flat white icon without any context, I might not even get it right.

lloeki 10y ago

France here, and the new one feels so much better. I definitely viewed the old one as a U.S. centric thing (similar to units).

oblio 10y ago
Yeah, I think it's an US - European thing. The parent comment mentioned Germany, you mentioned France, another comment mentioned Italy, I'm from Romania and we also use white notepads.
- cesarb 10y ago
  As another datapoint, I don't think I've ever seen a yellow one here in Brazil (other than paper so old that it has turned yellow from age).
  - mantas 10y ago
    Lithuanian there. No yellow pads in sight. White(-ish) all the way.
zeveb 10y ago
> France here, and the new one feels so much better. I definitely viewed the old one as a U.S. centric thing (similar to units). That's a bit funny, since it's France's revolutionary units which have been imposed on almost the entire world.

GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago

I'm an American and I've certainly seen plenty of white paper pads glued together at the top like the dude complains about.

tigroferoce 10y ago

I was about to make the same comment. Here in Italy we do not have the yellow notepads.

donatj 10y ago

This and it's subsequent comments are the weirdest, most unexpected thing in here to me. I'm an American who's worked in offices the last 10+ years and I have stacks and stacks of yellow legal pads from years of note taking in my closet. I think it is probably to do with it being cheap recycled discolored paper that was cheaper to dye than bleach. Might be better for the environment than bleach as well. I switched to dot paper about 4 years ago, though, and I'm relatively happy with the decision.

noir_lord 10y ago
The yellow pads are available in the UK but I've never seen them in the wild, I use 5mm squared A4 pads as they are the cheapest I've been able to find without buying an insane bulk order.
rhino369 10y ago
It's more expensive to die it yellow than bleach it white. And yellow paper is less recyclable. Some say yellow is better because it doesn't change color over time. I personally prefer yellow, but it's certainly odd. My law firm in the USA uses white now.