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I've seen very conflicting information when it comes to how dangerous unprocessed milk actually is. Many people argue that the ultra-bad bacteria is a result of

I've seen very conflicting information when it comes to how dangerous unprocessed milk actually is. Many people argue that the ultra-bad bacteria is a result of the processing itself (homogenization of milk from hundreds of cows in a single vat, unsanitary conditions for animals, udder sores producing infectious discharge). I'm not saying you're wrong, but my wife and I get our milk from a single cow. It's tested for harmful bacteria bi-monthly and we wash our own containers beforehand. Do we run a greater risk than purchasing pasteurized milk from the supermarket? Probably, but the flavor and nutrition make it worth it for us. Additionally, the raw yogurt eventually does turn to curd if put in an environment > ~50 degrees F. If you strain it through a cheesecloth, you have a very soft cream cheese. We don't make a habit out of doing that though -- leaving milk out overnight seems like a bad idea regardless of the source.

akiselev 10y ago
Well, apparently "many people" don't have a basic understanding of biology. The pasteurization process kills all but the thermophilic bacteria which is why you need to culture pasteurized milk. Only one of the two bacteria needed to make yogurt can withstand the process and the rest of the survivors are incapable of out competing our immune system because they are adapted to an entirely different environment. It doesn't matter how many cows produced a batch of milk as long as the temperature is high enough to kill the non-thermophilic microbes. When it comes to food poisoning and regulated dairy products, the vast majority of contaminations are from the bacteria Staphylococcus aureus, which is so common it can be found on the skin of almost any human being and is easily transfered after pasteurization. A staph infection is peanuts compared to the "ultra-bad" bacteria like Clostridium botulinum which produces a toxin that is fatal at a concentration on the order of nanograms of toxin per kilogram of body mass (and it certainly can't survive the high temperatures of pasteurization). Raw milk isn't actually banned in most of the developed world. The EU, for example, has non-binding rules that allow vendors to sell raw milk as long as it is done at a small scale, like your case, where the animals are tested often and the scale of the operation doesn't endanger the health of the average consumer. In most EU countries you can "time share" or own a cow that provides raw milk for your household but you can't openly sell it at a supermarket. Countries like France, where raw milk is culturally preferred (something like 20% of cheeses in France are made from raw milk), have a much much higher incidence of food poisoning from dairy than any of the countries where milk is always pasteurized. I love raw milk and miss it dearly since I moved to the United States but there is nearly a century of evidence that raw milk at commercial scale is an unacceptable risk to public health. So much so that there isn't a single country in the developed world that doesn't strictly regulate raw milk products and all of them do so for public safety reasons.
- fizgig 10y ago
  Botulism spores can survive much higher temps than those used for pasteurization. This is why there's a risk for botulism for home-canned goods that aren't acidic enough. If you're water bath canning, that's pretty much 212F (or less due to altitude). Pressure canning at 15PSI can get up to around 240F, which the minimum temp to kill botulism. In the past I have done the family milk cow/goat thing, as well as canning, natural fermentation, and cheese-making. So I've done some reading on the topics. I sorely miss raw jersey milk on a daily basis. That stuff is wonderful.

akiselev 10y ago

Well, apparently "many people" don't have a basic understanding of biology. The pasteurization process kills all but the thermophilic bacteria which is why you need to culture pasteurized milk. Only one of the two bacteria needed to make yogurt can withstand the process and the rest of the survivors are incapable of out competing our immune system because they are adapted to an entirely different environment. It doesn't matter how many cows produced a batch of milk as long as the temperature is high enough to kill the non-thermophilic microbes. When it comes to food poisoning and regulated dairy products, the vast majority of contaminations are from the bacteria Staphylococcus aureus, which is so common it can be found on the skin of almost any human being and is easily transfered after pasteurization. A staph infection is peanuts compared to the "ultra-bad" bacteria like Clostridium botulinum which produces a toxin that is fatal at a concentration on the order of nanograms of toxin per kilogram of body mass (and it certainly can't survive the high temperatures of pasteurization). Raw milk isn't actually banned in most of the developed world. The EU, for example, has non-binding rules that allow vendors to sell raw milk as long as it is done at a small scale, like your case, where the animals are tested often and the scale of the operation doesn't endanger the health of the average consumer. In most EU countries you can "time share" or own a cow that provides raw milk for your household but you can't openly sell it at a supermarket. Countries like France, where raw milk is culturally preferred (something like 20% of cheeses in France are made from raw milk), have a much much higher incidence of food poisoning from dairy than any of the countries where milk is always pasteurized. I love raw milk and miss it dearly since I moved to the United States but there is nearly a century of evidence that raw milk at commercial scale is an unacceptable risk to public health. So much so that there isn't a single country in the developed world that doesn't strictly regulate raw milk products and all of them do so for public safety reasons.

fizgig 10y ago
Botulism spores can survive much higher temps than those used for pasteurization. This is why there's a risk for botulism for home-canned goods that aren't acidic enough. If you're water bath canning, that's pretty much 212F (or less due to altitude). Pressure canning at 15PSI can get up to around 240F, which the minimum temp to kill botulism. In the past I have done the family milk cow/goat thing, as well as canning, natural fermentation, and cheese-making. So I've done some reading on the topics. I sorely miss raw jersey milk on a daily basis. That stuff is wonderful.