6 ms·

the supply in question is single family homes, particularly detached homes vancouver is bordered to the north by mountains, the south by the us border and the

the supply in question is single family homes, particularly detached homes vancouver is bordered to the north by mountains, the south by the us border and the west by the ocean. there's already suburban sprawl 2+ hours to the east. there is simply no room for more single family housing there is a large amount of agricultural land, but it's part of a strategic reserve as it's some of the most productive agricultural land in canada and developing it is extremely controversial

davidw 10y ago
So... build up? That's more expensive, tech wise, than single family detached homes, but at least it adds to the supply and constrains prices to some degree. You don't have to do skyscrapers, you can do 3/4 stories like most European cities. Not everyone can live in a single-family detached home with a big yard in a place with constrained land supply.
- serge2k 10y ago
  and then foreign investors will buy up those units instead and people will make up more excuses.
  - davidw 10y ago
    If you build enough, they'll stop buying because they will realize there are better places to invest in. Actually... you probably don't even need to do that. Just credibly threaten to allow the market to work, and enough to be built, and it'll likely start to cool things down.
    - mthoms 10y ago
      It's not nearly as simple as you're implying. The most obvious reasons have already been discussed, but I'll add that the construction industry in Vancouver is operating at full employment and has been for a long time. So where do these workers come from? Who will employ them, and better yet… where do you house them? Chicken meet egg.
    - Tiktaalik 10y ago
      The frustrating thing about the supply side solution is that the answer to every argument is always "add more supply!" even if the city is obviously already doing so at an aggressive pace. The reality is that there are real world physical limits to adding supply. There are a limited amount of trades for example. There is a limited capacity to review and process development applications. It takes time to complete buildings. Unlike Silicon Valley Metro Vancouver has steadily built condos for decades and the region currently has more housing starts than at any other time ever. Vancouver's issues are deeper and more urgent than a one dimensional supply side solution can solve.
    - bzbarsky 10y ago
      The problem is that the "foreign investors" are not _investors_. They are more like money launderers in terms of what they're looking for out of their "investment". That is, for these people it's totally ok to pay X now and only get 0.9X out of the property later, because their other option is not having the use of the money at all. It may well be OK for many of them to pay X now and only get 0.5X out later, and for some of them it's ok to pay X now and only get 0.1X out later. They would obviously prefer a better deal, but unlike a normal home-buyer or real-estate investor expecting a huge loss on later sale of the property is not necessarily something that will stop them from buying. There may be better places to "invest" in, but finding them may be more trouble than they are willing to take.
      - davidw 10y ago
        That's a fair point, and something that would warrant other solutions. It'd be interesting to read more about the actual numbers involved. People invoke the 'foreign investor' bogeyman in places like New York City, but it turns out that it is a tiny, tiny percentage of housing there. Sounds like it's different in Vancouver.
        bzbarsky 10y ago
        > It'd be interesting to read more about the actual numbers involved. Indeed. It's hard to get actual numbers because Canada is one of the few Western countries that doesn't make public the statistics it collects on who's buying stuff... > but it turns out that it is a tiny, tiny percentage of housing there The relevant metric is the percentage of sales, not the percentage of total housing stock. But yes, the situation in New York is nothing like Vancouver; New York has tons of rich locals driving up prices and even a lot of the absenteeish owners in New York really do want an apartment in New York to use for that one week a year they're in town. They may be somewhat price insensitive, but not desperate to buy anything right now to get their money into real estate in New York.
        msie 10y ago
        Several studies show them to be a tiny percentage but some people aren't satisfied.
- mahyarm 10y ago
  Vancouver has developed a lot of condos actually and has significantly less barriers to developing them than the SF bay area. It has gotten to a point where condo prices have stabilized relatively to SFH prices. 1 big problem with the condos: they don't make family sized ones. I've been trying to convince my parents & siblings to move into a cheaper condo due to housing prices in BC but there aren't many 4+ bedroom 1500sqft+ multifamily units available. There are far more SFH houses that match those conditions. In europe they have that kind of housing and it's frustrating to deal with that lack in BC.
- vkou 10y ago
  If you look around New Westminster, Gastown, Yaletown, Olympic Village, Burnaby, and even far-flung places like Port Moody or Coquitlam, you're going to see new 30-story condo construction. All around them, you're going to see new 3-5 story multi-use residencies. Thanks to this, condo prices in the metro area are not mindbogglingly unaffordable - they are merely unaffordable. Mind you, thanks to this real-estate boom, the construction in many of those condos is terrible - leaky roofs, non-working heating in the winter, constantly broken elevators... But since every unit is sold before the building breaks ground, that's what the free market asked for, right?
- wvenable 10y ago
  Condos are being built constantly -- and most of them sell out before they go on the market. The condos are all designed to be investment properties because that is where the money is to be made. Unfortunately they aren't that great to live in. I live near an absolutely massive condo development currently under construction. People actually slept in tents in line to purchase one (and I don't know how successful that was). It's complete insanity and saying "build up" or "build more" lacks understanding of the market, the geography, the culture, and the foreign investment.
  - uola 10y ago
    This whole thread is pretty bizarre. The proposed solution of making the city denser by building up is literally called Vancouverism. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=Vancouverism https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=Vancouverism

davidw 10y ago

So... build up? That's more expensive, tech wise, than single family detached homes, but at least it adds to the supply and constrains prices to some degree. You don't have to do skyscrapers, you can do 3/4 stories like most European cities. Not everyone can live in a single-family detached home with a big yard in a place with constrained land supply.

serge2k 10y ago
and then foreign investors will buy up those units instead and people will make up more excuses.
- davidw 10y ago
  If you build enough, they'll stop buying because they will realize there are better places to invest in. Actually... you probably don't even need to do that. Just credibly threaten to allow the market to work, and enough to be built, and it'll likely start to cool things down.
  - mthoms 10y ago
    It's not nearly as simple as you're implying. The most obvious reasons have already been discussed, but I'll add that the construction industry in Vancouver is operating at full employment and has been for a long time. So where do these workers come from? Who will employ them, and better yet… where do you house them? Chicken meet egg.
  - Tiktaalik 10y ago
    The frustrating thing about the supply side solution is that the answer to every argument is always "add more supply!" even if the city is obviously already doing so at an aggressive pace. The reality is that there are real world physical limits to adding supply. There are a limited amount of trades for example. There is a limited capacity to review and process development applications. It takes time to complete buildings. Unlike Silicon Valley Metro Vancouver has steadily built condos for decades and the region currently has more housing starts than at any other time ever. Vancouver's issues are deeper and more urgent than a one dimensional supply side solution can solve.
  - bzbarsky 10y ago
    The problem is that the "foreign investors" are not _investors_. They are more like money launderers in terms of what they're looking for out of their "investment". That is, for these people it's totally ok to pay X now and only get 0.9X out of the property later, because their other option is not having the use of the money at all. It may well be OK for many of them to pay X now and only get 0.5X out later, and for some of them it's ok to pay X now and only get 0.1X out later. They would obviously prefer a better deal, but unlike a normal home-buyer or real-estate investor expecting a huge loss on later sale of the property is not necessarily something that will stop them from buying. There may be better places to "invest" in, but finding them may be more trouble than they are willing to take.
    - davidw 10y ago
      That's a fair point, and something that would warrant other solutions. It'd be interesting to read more about the actual numbers involved. People invoke the 'foreign investor' bogeyman in places like New York City, but it turns out that it is a tiny, tiny percentage of housing there. Sounds like it's different in Vancouver.
      - bzbarsky 10y ago
        > It'd be interesting to read more about the actual numbers involved. Indeed. It's hard to get actual numbers because Canada is one of the few Western countries that doesn't make public the statistics it collects on who's buying stuff... > but it turns out that it is a tiny, tiny percentage of housing there The relevant metric is the percentage of sales, not the percentage of total housing stock. But yes, the situation in New York is nothing like Vancouver; New York has tons of rich locals driving up prices and even a lot of the absenteeish owners in New York really do want an apartment in New York to use for that one week a year they're in town. They may be somewhat price insensitive, but not desperate to buy anything right now to get their money into real estate in New York.
      - msie 10y ago
        Several studies show them to be a tiny percentage but some people aren't satisfied.
mahyarm 10y ago
Vancouver has developed a lot of condos actually and has significantly less barriers to developing them than the SF bay area. It has gotten to a point where condo prices have stabilized relatively to SFH prices. 1 big problem with the condos: they don't make family sized ones. I've been trying to convince my parents & siblings to move into a cheaper condo due to housing prices in BC but there aren't many 4+ bedroom 1500sqft+ multifamily units available. There are far more SFH houses that match those conditions. In europe they have that kind of housing and it's frustrating to deal with that lack in BC.
vkou 10y ago
If you look around New Westminster, Gastown, Yaletown, Olympic Village, Burnaby, and even far-flung places like Port Moody or Coquitlam, you're going to see new 30-story condo construction. All around them, you're going to see new 3-5 story multi-use residencies. Thanks to this, condo prices in the metro area are not mindbogglingly unaffordable - they are merely unaffordable. Mind you, thanks to this real-estate boom, the construction in many of those condos is terrible - leaky roofs, non-working heating in the winter, constantly broken elevators... But since every unit is sold before the building breaks ground, that's what the free market asked for, right?
wvenable 10y ago
Condos are being built constantly -- and most of them sell out before they go on the market. The condos are all designed to be investment properties because that is where the money is to be made. Unfortunately they aren't that great to live in. I live near an absolutely massive condo development currently under construction. People actually slept in tents in line to purchase one (and I don't know how successful that was). It's complete insanity and saying "build up" or "build more" lacks understanding of the market, the geography, the culture, and the foreign investment.
- uola 10y ago
  This whole thread is pretty bizarre. The proposed solution of making the city denser by building up is literally called Vancouverism. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=Vancouverism https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=Vancouverism