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He's wrong about coffee and refrigerators. It's true that some places tried to ban coffee due its stimulant effects, coffeehouses spread through Europe pretty q

He's wrong about coffee and refrigerators. It's true that some places tried to ban coffee due its stimulant effects, coffeehouses spread through Europe pretty quickly in the 17th century.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
oinksoft 10y ago
Apparently as recently as the 19th century, coffee was forbidden in Ethiopia (the birthplace of coffee, where its cultural importance is tremendous) by the Orthodox Church. Coffee, along with tobacco, cannabis and khat were considered "cursed plants" because they were reputed to have not dried when Christ was crucified. The best source I could find is http://www.ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_3_No_21_[Special_Issue_December_2013]/27.pdf http://www.ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_3_No_21_[Special_Issue_... which describes the condemnation of khat: > Khat was cursed by God forever to be chewed by humans because of causing a divine displeasure when God came to Earth and all the plants bowed before him showing ultimate respect with the exception of Khat.
- tedunangst 10y ago
  That's weird. If you ban khat, then humans won't chew it, subverting God's curse.
  - oinksoft 10y ago
    Unfortunately, this is the only source I could find referring to plants marked as "cursed" by the church for the reason that they didn't "bow before [God]." Most primary sources are in Amharic, of which I know little.
btilly 10y ago
No, he's right about both. Here is the story for coffee. Coffeehouses were banned in Mecca from 1512 and 1524 before they became accepted. Then according to legend, opposition to imports of coffee lead to Pope Clement VIII being asked to ban it around 1600. He decided not to do so, and the rise of coffee houses came later. Then in both England and Germany, coffeehouses were seen as such places of disrepute that women were banned from going to them! On refrigerators, early refrigerators used ammonia, which was toxic if it leaked. And early designs did leak. This lead to valid safety concerns. Concerns that were later addressed by the invention of freon. (Which is an unbelievably safe chemical for everything except the ozone layer!)
- Alex3917 10y ago
  Iirc, coffee was originally used as an entheogen by Sufi mystics and likely killed many people also.
- ktRolster 10y ago
  Then in both England and Germany, coffeehouses were seen as such places of disrepute that women were banned from going to them! To be fair to our German and British friends, depending on how coffee was introduced (sailors/pirates), they may actually have been places of disrepute.....
  - Finnucane 10y ago
    And even if they were places of disrepute, there were a lot of them, and people went to them.
- Finnucane 10y ago
  Those things don't mean that people didn't want or use coffee; in fact, it probably means the opposite, or they wouldn't have been a ban. And refrigeration wasn't held up because people didn't want it, it was because the technology wasn't very good.

He's wrong about coffee and refrigerators. It's true that some places tried to ban coffee due its stimulant effects, coffeehouses spread through Europe pretty quickly in the 17th century.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

oinksoft 10y ago

Apparently as recently as the 19th century, coffee was forbidden in Ethiopia (the birthplace of coffee, where its cultural importance is tremendous) by the Orthodox Church. Coffee, along with tobacco, cannabis and khat were considered "cursed plants" because they were reputed to have not dried when Christ was crucified. The best source I could find is http://www.ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_3_No_21_[Special_Issue_December_2013]/27.pdf http://www.ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_3_No_21_[Special_Issue_... which describes the condemnation of khat: > Khat was cursed by God forever to be chewed by humans because of causing a divine displeasure when God came to Earth and all the plants bowed before him showing ultimate respect with the exception of Khat.

tedunangst 10y ago
That's weird. If you ban khat, then humans won't chew it, subverting God's curse.
- oinksoft 10y ago
  Unfortunately, this is the only source I could find referring to plants marked as "cursed" by the church for the reason that they didn't "bow before [God]." Most primary sources are in Amharic, of which I know little.

btilly 10y ago

No, he's right about both. Here is the story for coffee. Coffeehouses were banned in Mecca from 1512 and 1524 before they became accepted. Then according to legend, opposition to imports of coffee lead to Pope Clement VIII being asked to ban it around 1600. He decided not to do so, and the rise of coffee houses came later. Then in both England and Germany, coffeehouses were seen as such places of disrepute that women were banned from going to them! On refrigerators, early refrigerators used ammonia, which was toxic if it leaked. And early designs did leak. This lead to valid safety concerns. Concerns that were later addressed by the invention of freon. (Which is an unbelievably safe chemical for everything except the ozone layer!)

Alex3917 10y ago
Iirc, coffee was originally used as an entheogen by Sufi mystics and likely killed many people also.
ktRolster 10y ago
Then in both England and Germany, coffeehouses were seen as such places of disrepute that women were banned from going to them! To be fair to our German and British friends, depending on how coffee was introduced (sailors/pirates), they may actually have been places of disrepute.....
- Finnucane 10y ago
  And even if they were places of disrepute, there were a lot of them, and people went to them.
Finnucane 10y ago
Those things don't mean that people didn't want or use coffee; in fact, it probably means the opposite, or they wouldn't have been a ban. And refrigeration wasn't held up because people didn't want it, it was because the technology wasn't very good.