6 ms·

From what I heard from ex employee working at Valve it's not what you think it is. i.e: it's very political.

by Thaxll 10y ago

oblio 10y ago
Any group of more than 2 people is always "political" :) There's a reason all Olympic sports where you can interact with your opponents only have 2 teams/opponents facing off at the same time.
- indeed30 10y ago
  Cycling. Although that rather proves your point as politics are most definitely on-show there.
  - tome 10y ago
    Does Olympic cycling have more than two teams against each other at the same time? The Tour de France, on the other hand, like Formula 1, is very political.
    - indeed30 10y ago
      Yeah absolutely it does - the omnium on the track features events, such as the elimination race, with all countries represented at the same time, as does the road race. The road race is particularly interesting as while it is officially national teams that participate, there also sometimes exist looser bonds between riders of the same pro-team.
- gens 10y ago
  I'm good with olimpic gold medalists in rowing and i think there isn't much politics there. Especially between teams. It wouldn't even make sense to involve politics in sports (yes i know football, basketball and such..) as the competition is to find out who is the best and not who is the best connected.
  - oblio 10y ago
    How are you interacting with opponents in rowing? Can you hit them over the head with an oar? By politics I mean that you can cooperate with a part of your opponents to side line some of the other opponents.
    - gens 10y ago
      >How are you interacting with opponents in rowing? Can you hit them over the head with an oar? Words can hurt more then an oar. :) Either way you'd have to hit them really hard for them to care (they train insanely hard). >By politics I mean that you can cooperate with a part of your opponents to side line some of the other opponents. I feel i can safely say that that doesn't happen in rowing. At least for the team i know i am sure that they wouldn't "take a dive" (or even think about it; same for their trainer).
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago
  > Any group of more than 2 people is always "political" Agree with your statement on its own. In this context, "political" likely means loyalty is valued over competence.
  - sdenton4 10y ago
    Politics is the allocation of power. And a synonym for power is the ability to make decisions. When you've got a limited resource (eg, the time of 300 employees), allocation of that resource is guaranteed to be political, precisely because there will be competing interests which need to be resolved. The question is whether the company comes up with healthy method for making these decisions.
- matthewowen 10y ago
  On the face of it, this seems like a reasonable comment. But it has basically no relationship to reality: Many track cycling events Road cycling Every track event Marathon Marathon swimming Triathlon Sailing This is a non-exhaustive list off the top of my head. They all involve tactical interaction with a group of opponents.
  - oblio 10y ago
    I'm totally in the dark here. How are you interacting (legally) with other competitors during a marathon?
    - PascLeRasc 10y ago
      Run an 800m by yourself and then with your friend who's really into running. You'll do better the second time since you'll push yourself to be as good as he/she.
      - oblio 10y ago
        I'm still kind of in the dark. Are you saying that during a marathon there will be some "sacrificial" runners (I think they're called "rabbits")? That's like playing in a team, they're not really opponents. You can't interact with the real opponents, as far as I know.
        matthewowen 10y ago
        So, there are a few things: 1. Drafting has benefits 2. Different runners have different strengths. Some have a stronger kick at the end of the race, some have a weaker kick but can maintain a higher pace. One example of how this can play out in a marathon (and, to a greater extent, in something like the 5000) is that a runner who has a faster overall potential but a weaker finishing kick wants the pace to be run at a higher tempo. However, if the runner tries to do this unilaterally, weaker athletes may be able to draft and use the physical and mental benefits to hang on, before winning using their kick. However, if there are multiple endurance oriented athletes, they're typically more able to enforce a higher tempo throughout the run that will drop those athletes that have a stronger kick. You'll often notice this in the 5000, where the winning time might be well below the personal or seasonal bests of many of the participating runners. Tactics prevent them from running their optimal race, and then a stronger kicking runner wins.
ck425 10y ago
I'm not surprised by that. In every company power/influence come from a mixture of politics and formal hierarchy, so it makes sense that if you remove the latter the former would take over. That said, with the right culture office politics might be a more effective meritocracy than a formal hierarchy. I wonder if they have any internal initiatives to remove cognitive biases that causes many of the negative parts of office politics.

From what I heard from ex employee working at Valve it's not what you think it is. i.e: it's very political.

by Thaxll 10y ago

From what I heard from ex employee working at Valve it's not what you think it is. i.e: it's very political.

oblio 10y ago

Any group of more than 2 people is always "political" :) There's a reason all Olympic sports where you can interact with your opponents only have 2 teams/opponents facing off at the same time.

indeed30 10y ago
Cycling. Although that rather proves your point as politics are most definitely on-show there.
- tome 10y ago
  Does Olympic cycling have more than two teams against each other at the same time? The Tour de France, on the other hand, like Formula 1, is very political.
  - indeed30 10y ago
    Yeah absolutely it does - the omnium on the track features events, such as the elimination race, with all countries represented at the same time, as does the road race. The road race is particularly interesting as while it is officially national teams that participate, there also sometimes exist looser bonds between riders of the same pro-team.
gens 10y ago
I'm good with olimpic gold medalists in rowing and i think there isn't much politics there. Especially between teams. It wouldn't even make sense to involve politics in sports (yes i know football, basketball and such..) as the competition is to find out who is the best and not who is the best connected.
- oblio 10y ago
  How are you interacting with opponents in rowing? Can you hit them over the head with an oar? By politics I mean that you can cooperate with a part of your opponents to side line some of the other opponents.
  - gens 10y ago
    >How are you interacting with opponents in rowing? Can you hit them over the head with an oar? Words can hurt more then an oar. :) Either way you'd have to hit them really hard for them to care (they train insanely hard). >By politics I mean that you can cooperate with a part of your opponents to side line some of the other opponents. I feel i can safely say that that doesn't happen in rowing. At least for the team i know i am sure that they wouldn't "take a dive" (or even think about it; same for their trainer).
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
> Any group of more than 2 people is always "political" Agree with your statement on its own. In this context, "political" likely means loyalty is valued over competence.
- sdenton4 10y ago
  Politics is the allocation of power. And a synonym for power is the ability to make decisions. When you've got a limited resource (eg, the time of 300 employees), allocation of that resource is guaranteed to be political, precisely because there will be competing interests which need to be resolved. The question is whether the company comes up with healthy method for making these decisions.
matthewowen 10y ago
On the face of it, this seems like a reasonable comment. But it has basically no relationship to reality: Many track cycling events Road cycling Every track event Marathon Marathon swimming Triathlon Sailing This is a non-exhaustive list off the top of my head. They all involve tactical interaction with a group of opponents.
- oblio 10y ago
  I'm totally in the dark here. How are you interacting (legally) with other competitors during a marathon?
  - PascLeRasc 10y ago
    Run an 800m by yourself and then with your friend who's really into running. You'll do better the second time since you'll push yourself to be as good as he/she.
    - oblio 10y ago
      I'm still kind of in the dark. Are you saying that during a marathon there will be some "sacrificial" runners (I think they're called "rabbits")? That's like playing in a team, they're not really opponents. You can't interact with the real opponents, as far as I know.
      - matthewowen 10y ago
        So, there are a few things: 1. Drafting has benefits 2. Different runners have different strengths. Some have a stronger kick at the end of the race, some have a weaker kick but can maintain a higher pace. One example of how this can play out in a marathon (and, to a greater extent, in something like the 5000) is that a runner who has a faster overall potential but a weaker finishing kick wants the pace to be run at a higher tempo. However, if the runner tries to do this unilaterally, weaker athletes may be able to draft and use the physical and mental benefits to hang on, before winning using their kick. However, if there are multiple endurance oriented athletes, they're typically more able to enforce a higher tempo throughout the run that will drop those athletes that have a stronger kick. You'll often notice this in the 5000, where the winning time might be well below the personal or seasonal bests of many of the participating runners. Tactics prevent them from running their optimal race, and then a stronger kicking runner wins.

ck425 10y ago

I'm not surprised by that. In every company power/influence come from a mixture of politics and formal hierarchy, so it makes sense that if you remove the latter the former would take over. That said, with the right culture office politics might be a more effective meritocracy than a formal hierarchy. I wonder if they have any internal initiatives to remove cognitive biases that causes many of the negative parts of office politics.