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As a PHP programmer, I picked up Node.js really quickly. I mean, sure, I already knew JavaScript, but Node is a very different ecosystem and has its own tools.

by iopq 10y ago

As a PHP programmer, I picked up Node.js really quickly. I mean, sure, I already knew JavaScript, but Node is a very different ecosystem and has its own tools. After a week I was already productive and after a month I was already bored with it. I bet I could be a perfectly fine RoR developer, given a little bit of time. I don't know Ruby, but I pick up languages quickly. Or, I mean, you could just keep the position open for a few months and just screen for keywords. It's really your choice.

Spoom 10y ago
The problem that I see is that employers don't want to spend the time to train people, or even wait for them to train themselves. They figure, if they can get someone who can hit the ground running, why would they waste time waiting for someone like you who needs to learn the language, regardless of how long it actually takes?
- GoToRO 10y ago
  so true. Of course they wait 3 months maybe to hire somebody expensive vs. hiring someone smart that can do a very good job after one month.
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    It never fails to amuse me to see job advertisements that state "hit the ground running" that have been up for more than a month. It especially amuses me when the critical skill keyword, paired with "developer" or "engineer", surveys above median pay for "software developer" or "software engineer". They are literally searching harder and waiting longer, to pay more for a narrower skill set. Good luck finding that "javascript applications developer" or "ruby on rails engineer" or "SPARK/RTEMS engineer", guys. If you needed someone to be productive today, all you had to do would have been to hire them last month and give them a $200 book budget.
- shubhamjain 10y ago
  Considering the amount of interviews it takes to hire "the one", I guess the better bet is to hire quick learners who have the enthusiasm. How much time will it take to be an average RoR developer? One month? Two months tops! I know someone who was hired without any substantial background in HTML or CSS, and as of now, after three years, he knows enough to be able to speak at a major CSS conference.
- danielweber 10y ago
  If you are going to have them on your team for 3 years, do the first two weeks matter? Where I work the first two weeks are explicitly training. You will not contribute to the bottom line at all, even if you are an expert already. And sometimes this feels like not enough.
- quantumhobbit 10y ago
  What they don't realize is that they it takes longer to find the perfect candidate than to train a good enough candidate. It might take a month or so to train someone on whatever web framework if they have similar experience. Yet the position could stay unfilled for six months or more waiting for that perfect candidate.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    You have identified one reason we have a "talent shortage".
- wyclif 10y ago
  When I've asked why tech employers don't want to train people in the past, the prevailing answer was always that they didn't want other companies to get the benefit of the investment when they poach. This was what was behind the anti-competitive suit brought against Google, Apple, Adobe, etc
onion2k 10y ago
As a PHP programmer, I picked up Node.js really quickly. Every PHP developer who I've seen pick up a nodejs project has end up fighting against asynchronous code and promises. You're fortunate that you were able to grok that aspect of node easily.
- arenaninja 10y ago
  The thing is, that's pretty much what JavaScript is. Callbacks, promises, closures and async. If you already figured out that while working with Frontend Javascript the transition to Node is pain-free. But I can see how, if you're a PHP-only developer you would suffer.
- iopq 10y ago
  I had to deal with asynchronous code when working with client-side JavaScript, it wasn't a new thing for me. If anything, I expect Ruby to be a little nicer if I have to work with RoR. But I probably won't because everyone wants 10 years of RoR experience nowadays.

by iopq 10y ago

Spoom 10y ago

The problem that I see is that employers don't want to spend the time to train people, or even wait for them to train themselves. They figure, if they can get someone who can hit the ground running, why would they waste time waiting for someone like you who needs to learn the language, regardless of how long it actually takes?

GoToRO 10y ago
so true. Of course they wait 3 months maybe to hire somebody expensive vs. hiring someone smart that can do a very good job after one month.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  It never fails to amuse me to see job advertisements that state "hit the ground running" that have been up for more than a month. It especially amuses me when the critical skill keyword, paired with "developer" or "engineer", surveys above median pay for "software developer" or "software engineer". They are literally searching harder and waiting longer, to pay more for a narrower skill set. Good luck finding that "javascript applications developer" or "ruby on rails engineer" or "SPARK/RTEMS engineer", guys. If you needed someone to be productive today, all you had to do would have been to hire them last month and give them a $200 book budget.
shubhamjain 10y ago
Considering the amount of interviews it takes to hire "the one", I guess the better bet is to hire quick learners who have the enthusiasm. How much time will it take to be an average RoR developer? One month? Two months tops! I know someone who was hired without any substantial background in HTML or CSS, and as of now, after three years, he knows enough to be able to speak at a major CSS conference.
danielweber 10y ago
If you are going to have them on your team for 3 years, do the first two weeks matter? Where I work the first two weeks are explicitly training. You will not contribute to the bottom line at all, even if you are an expert already. And sometimes this feels like not enough.
quantumhobbit 10y ago
What they don't realize is that they it takes longer to find the perfect candidate than to train a good enough candidate. It might take a month or so to train someone on whatever web framework if they have similar experience. Yet the position could stay unfilled for six months or more waiting for that perfect candidate.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  You have identified one reason we have a "talent shortage".
wyclif 10y ago
When I've asked why tech employers don't want to train people in the past, the prevailing answer was always that they didn't want other companies to get the benefit of the investment when they poach. This was what was behind the anti-competitive suit brought against Google, Apple, Adobe, etc

onion2k 10y ago

As a PHP programmer, I picked up Node.js really quickly. Every PHP developer who I've seen pick up a nodejs project has end up fighting against asynchronous code and promises. You're fortunate that you were able to grok that aspect of node easily.

arenaninja 10y ago
The thing is, that's pretty much what JavaScript is. Callbacks, promises, closures and async. If you already figured out that while working with Frontend Javascript the transition to Node is pain-free. But I can see how, if you're a PHP-only developer you would suffer.
iopq 10y ago
I had to deal with asynchronous code when working with client-side JavaScript, it wasn't a new thing for me. If anything, I expect Ruby to be a little nicer if I have to work with RoR. But I probably won't because everyone wants 10 years of RoR experience nowadays.