6 ms·

Two reasons: First, the "confession" -- whosever they are trying to elicit -- has more value if given out of paranoia. Think about it this way: you have a bri

by eob 17y ago

Two reasons: First, the "confession" -- whosever they are trying to elicit -- has more value if given out of paranoia. Think about it this way: you have a brief glimpse into something wrong that happened, but you don't know the full story. Let's say you know 10% of the full story. If you come forward with the evidence, the accused party need only acknowledge or refute the 10% that you've divulged. However if you make them think you know a whole lot more than 10%, you might end up pressuring them to give a confession that will reveal a much larger amount of the wrong deed. Second, pressuring a government to admit wrongdoing is better PR for Wikileaks than disclosing leaked information. Wikileaks is treading on delicate territory already with their mission statement. When classified information becomes whistleblower-deserving information is a debatable topic. Because of this, Wikileaks has to manage their PR very carefully, lest they be viewed as the enemy-to-all, friend-to-none. By pressuring organizations to admit wrongdoing rather than publicly accusing them of it, it's a win-win: the information gets out, and WikiLeaks doesn't have to be in the press again for leaking "stolen" information.

eob 17y ago
Still, I think the idea of a small amateur (as far as spycraft is concerned) organization pressuring the DoD like this is insane. They're risking their own wellbeing.
- rbanffy 17y ago
  > They're risking their own wellbeing. For a good cause, that is. One that benefits us all.
- runinit 17y ago
  Information in the ultimate weapon and the internet is the ideal vector for attack.
  - Estragon 17y ago
    I don't understand why this comment is being voted up. What does it mean, and how does it relate to the comment it's responding to?
    - k33n 17y ago
      It means that the free and open exchange of information is the public's best weapon against corruption.
      - dkimball 17y ago
        If that's so, why is Africa still a mess? We have no shortage of knowledge about the scale of corruption south of the Sahara (and north of it); the problem is that those who are prepared to fight in, let's say, Nigeria and those who want to stop corruption in Nigeria are seldom the same people. In the end, weapons are the most important weapons. If a group of people no longer care about anything but their own power, and they're armed, the thing to do is to deprive them of those arms -- not to catalog their abuses and trust in the power of words.
        lars 17y ago
        Africa is a perfect example of a continent where, in many countries, there is no free press and little access to the Internet. In general you'll find a strong correlation between a lack of free press and low GDP, war, oppression etc. Yeah, causation != correlation, but obviously the reason for a corrupt government to disallow the free press is to keep itself in power.
        setori88 17y ago
        Africa is meant to be a mess, Western powers ensure it through foreign aid, propping up dictatorship all to ensure cheap access to raw materials.
    - adrianwaj 17y ago
      With the internet you can take on the DoD. If you know what you're doing, you can hack the DoD in such a way. Transparency all the way: look how Wikileaks are being so open on Twitter, look how we're all discussing it.
      - TeHCrAzY 17y ago
        You'll have a hard time hacking past an air gap.
- nolochemical 17y ago
  They didnt close Gitmo for no reason, its cost effective to outright eliminate people.
  - andreyf 17y ago
    Except we never closed Gitmo, and even if we did, the public outcry is associated with that base's name alone. If the military were to rename and move it a couple miles over, the public perception wouldn't ever reach Gitmo levels at least as long as Obama is in office.
    - waterlesscloud 17y ago
      Which is pretty much what's happening, except it's moving to the other side of the world. And we're just killing people rather than bringing them in. So, there's your Gitmo solution.
      - jaxn 17y ago
        And we did it before with the School of the Americas. It was in Panama as the "U.S. Army Caribbean Training Center" and was forced to move as a result of the Panama Canal treaty. Then they changed the name to School of the America's and focused on fighting communists (with the same tactic of training what we now call insurgents). After the killing of nuns in South America it started to get bad press (referred to as the "School of Assassins") and eventually was forced to "close" and reopen as "Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation". Gitmo seems like it is about to undergo a similar process. Edit: Just saw that today is the 30th anniversary of the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Arnulfo Romero. The people responsible were trained at the School of Americas.
        akgerber 17y ago
        http://soaw.org/ http://soaw.org/ There are still yearly protests there despite the name change.
fnid2 17y ago
Those loyal to truth are often the enemy of all. We all have secrets to hide. Watching a philosopher speak the other day, he said a quote from someone I can't remember, but goes something like this: Those who introspect and attempt to confront the demons within must have more courage than a soldier on the battle field. In this case, if the "leader of the free world" is responsible for something so dramatic that this is happening, then it is of the utmost importance to share it with the world. We must do what we can to stop abuses of power. If we can't stop them, then we must make each of us reflect on the injustice leveled on others in order that we may have what we have. At some point, we must recognize that the evils we perpetrate are not worth it. I would love to see a resurgence of conscience, that is so poorly absent from our modern society full of invisible ills, purple pills, and political shills.
- sliverstorm 17y ago
  > Those who introspect and attempt to confront the demons within must have more courage than a soldier on the battle field. Nice rhetoric, but I don't buy it. Methinks the author of said quote has never been a soldier.
  - fnid2 17y ago
    I thought that too. It's one thing to think about death and another to face it. But I have faced it. 4 times I've almost died: Once I was saved from drowning, I was in two car crashes, and the last time was due to an illness. Everything went blue. My vision shrank to a pin hole and right before I passed out and collapsed, this feeling of peace came over me. I remember thinking, "This is what it is like? This is dying? It's not so bad." Since then, I've spent more time thinking about life and death and it is through that reflection that I feel fear. I try to imagine not existing. It's hard and I come to some place of blackness which is much more terrifying than that last time I almost died, but in all fairness to soldiers, there were no bullets flying by me, bombs exploding, or adrenaline in my veins.
    - kiba 17y ago
      I knew of an economist who has to flee to the United States because he was high on Nazi's wanted men list.

by eob 17y ago

eob 17y ago

Still, I think the idea of a small amateur (as far as spycraft is concerned) organization pressuring the DoD like this is insane. They're risking their own wellbeing.

rbanffy 17y ago
> They're risking their own wellbeing. For a good cause, that is. One that benefits us all.
runinit 17y ago
Information in the ultimate weapon and the internet is the ideal vector for attack.
- Estragon 17y ago
  I don't understand why this comment is being voted up. What does it mean, and how does it relate to the comment it's responding to?
  - k33n 17y ago
    It means that the free and open exchange of information is the public's best weapon against corruption.
    - dkimball 17y ago
      If that's so, why is Africa still a mess? We have no shortage of knowledge about the scale of corruption south of the Sahara (and north of it); the problem is that those who are prepared to fight in, let's say, Nigeria and those who want to stop corruption in Nigeria are seldom the same people. In the end, weapons are the most important weapons. If a group of people no longer care about anything but their own power, and they're armed, the thing to do is to deprive them of those arms -- not to catalog their abuses and trust in the power of words.
      - lars 17y ago
        Africa is a perfect example of a continent where, in many countries, there is no free press and little access to the Internet. In general you'll find a strong correlation between a lack of free press and low GDP, war, oppression etc. Yeah, causation != correlation, but obviously the reason for a corrupt government to disallow the free press is to keep itself in power.
      - setori88 17y ago
        Africa is meant to be a mess, Western powers ensure it through foreign aid, propping up dictatorship all to ensure cheap access to raw materials.
  - adrianwaj 17y ago
    With the internet you can take on the DoD. If you know what you're doing, you can hack the DoD in such a way. Transparency all the way: look how Wikileaks are being so open on Twitter, look how we're all discussing it.
    - TeHCrAzY 17y ago
      You'll have a hard time hacking past an air gap.
nolochemical 17y ago
They didnt close Gitmo for no reason, its cost effective to outright eliminate people.
- andreyf 17y ago
  Except we never closed Gitmo, and even if we did, the public outcry is associated with that base's name alone. If the military were to rename and move it a couple miles over, the public perception wouldn't ever reach Gitmo levels at least as long as Obama is in office.
  - waterlesscloud 17y ago
    Which is pretty much what's happening, except it's moving to the other side of the world. And we're just killing people rather than bringing them in. So, there's your Gitmo solution.
    - jaxn 17y ago
      And we did it before with the School of the Americas. It was in Panama as the "U.S. Army Caribbean Training Center" and was forced to move as a result of the Panama Canal treaty. Then they changed the name to School of the America's and focused on fighting communists (with the same tactic of training what we now call insurgents). After the killing of nuns in South America it started to get bad press (referred to as the "School of Assassins") and eventually was forced to "close" and reopen as "Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation". Gitmo seems like it is about to undergo a similar process. Edit: Just saw that today is the 30th anniversary of the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Arnulfo Romero. The people responsible were trained at the School of Americas.
      - akgerber 17y ago
        http://soaw.org/ http://soaw.org/ There are still yearly protests there despite the name change.

fnid2 17y ago

Those loyal to truth are often the enemy of all. We all have secrets to hide. Watching a philosopher speak the other day, he said a quote from someone I can't remember, but goes something like this: Those who introspect and attempt to confront the demons within must have more courage than a soldier on the battle field. In this case, if the "leader of the free world" is responsible for something so dramatic that this is happening, then it is of the utmost importance to share it with the world. We must do what we can to stop abuses of power. If we can't stop them, then we must make each of us reflect on the injustice leveled on others in order that we may have what we have. At some point, we must recognize that the evils we perpetrate are not worth it. I would love to see a resurgence of conscience, that is so poorly absent from our modern society full of invisible ills, purple pills, and political shills.

sliverstorm 17y ago
> Those who introspect and attempt to confront the demons within must have more courage than a soldier on the battle field. Nice rhetoric, but I don't buy it. Methinks the author of said quote has never been a soldier.
- fnid2 17y ago
  I thought that too. It's one thing to think about death and another to face it. But I have faced it. 4 times I've almost died: Once I was saved from drowning, I was in two car crashes, and the last time was due to an illness. Everything went blue. My vision shrank to a pin hole and right before I passed out and collapsed, this feeling of peace came over me. I remember thinking, "This is what it is like? This is dying? It's not so bad." Since then, I've spent more time thinking about life and death and it is through that reflection that I feel fear. I try to imagine not existing. It's hard and I come to some place of blackness which is much more terrifying than that last time I almost died, but in all fairness to soldiers, there were no bullets flying by me, bombs exploding, or adrenaline in my veins.
  - kiba 17y ago
    I knew of an economist who has to flee to the United States because he was high on Nazi's wanted men list.