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Okay, then answer me why it makes sense to waste one's time on storage contortions in Docker on Linux when a different technology offers an enterprise tested so

by Annatar 10y ago

Okay, then answer me why it makes sense to waste one's time on storage contortions in Docker on Linux when a different technology offers an enterprise tested solution? In SmartOS all I have to do is instantiate a docker branded zone, and the storage it uses is automatically permanent, no extra steps needed like on Linux.

cyphar 10y ago
> and the storage it uses is automatically permanent Is it also automatically replicated to a distributed storage pool so that it is mirrored to all of your other containers? Because that's what people are talking about when they discuss "container storage" -- they're discussing creating storage for a distributed system. You can create persistence incredibly easily with runC (the core executor for Docker). In fact, runC by default just allows you to store all of your state in your container's rootfs (you need to manually add mounts to make your state run in a tmpfs). It's just not very useful to have all of your state on one of your compute nodes. I really don't understand why you keep pretending that we're focusing on the simple things. If I didn't know better, I would think that you're trying to distort the problems we're discussing (which are problems for every system) into very easy problems that SmartOS has solved (but also every other operating system has solved as well). As someone who thinks SmartOS has some very powerful technology, I'm surprised that an advocate of SmartOS is resorting to strawmanning the problems that we're discussing. Surely the technology should stand for itself.
- Annatar 10y ago
  Is it also automatically replicated to a distributed storage pool so that it is mirrored to all of your other containers? Even better, it uses a distributed object store backed by ZFS called "Manta". Do you have any more questions? Meanwhile, you are very persistent at stonewalling my original question: why the insistence on using Docker?
  - cyphar 10y ago
    > why the insistence on using Docker? I answered this in a cousin comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12164793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12164793 > distributed object store backed by ZFS called "Manta". a) Is this the default for SmartOS installs, and is this how containers work by default on SmartOS? Is the method of setting this up seamelss? b) Can you self host Manta. c) What are you even arguing about, you're just pointing at an cloud service and declaring victory. You might want to elaborate a bit more. > Do you have any more questions? Yes. Apart from the fact that I could just use S3 to achieve the exact same thing, and the fact that you might not be able to store things as pure objects (since you can't do partial writes, etc etc) do you not see that as dodging the original point? Do zones provide a seamless way of mounting a particular set of manta objects into a container so that you can actually store secrets inside manta without also storing your credentials everywhere? Also, out of interest, has Joyent liberated for Manta (I know that SmartDataCenter is free software, but I haven't checked if Manta is). There are a few other things that GNU/Linux containers have that I think SmartOS Zones don't. Can you start application containers, or is the only mode for Zones a "boot" process with an init daemon? Also out of interest, do you have the concept of rootless zones -- zones entirely created by an unprivileged user?

by Annatar 10y ago

cyphar 10y ago

> and the storage it uses is automatically permanent Is it also automatically replicated to a distributed storage pool so that it is mirrored to all of your other containers? Because that's what people are talking about when they discuss "container storage" -- they're discussing creating storage for a distributed system. You can create persistence incredibly easily with runC (the core executor for Docker). In fact, runC by default just allows you to store all of your state in your container's rootfs (you need to manually add mounts to make your state run in a tmpfs). It's just not very useful to have all of your state on one of your compute nodes. I really don't understand why you keep pretending that we're focusing on the simple things. If I didn't know better, I would think that you're trying to distort the problems we're discussing (which are problems for every system) into very easy problems that SmartOS has solved (but also every other operating system has solved as well). As someone who thinks SmartOS has some very powerful technology, I'm surprised that an advocate of SmartOS is resorting to strawmanning the problems that we're discussing. Surely the technology should stand for itself.

Annatar 10y ago
Is it also automatically replicated to a distributed storage pool so that it is mirrored to all of your other containers? Even better, it uses a distributed object store backed by ZFS called "Manta". Do you have any more questions? Meanwhile, you are very persistent at stonewalling my original question: why the insistence on using Docker?
- cyphar 10y ago
  > why the insistence on using Docker? I answered this in a cousin comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12164793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12164793 > distributed object store backed by ZFS called "Manta". a) Is this the default for SmartOS installs, and is this how containers work by default on SmartOS? Is the method of setting this up seamelss? b) Can you self host Manta. c) What are you even arguing about, you're just pointing at an cloud service and declaring victory. You might want to elaborate a bit more. > Do you have any more questions? Yes. Apart from the fact that I could just use S3 to achieve the exact same thing, and the fact that you might not be able to store things as pure objects (since you can't do partial writes, etc etc) do you not see that as dodging the original point? Do zones provide a seamless way of mounting a particular set of manta objects into a container so that you can actually store secrets inside manta without also storing your credentials everywhere? Also, out of interest, has Joyent liberated for Manta (I know that SmartDataCenter is free software, but I haven't checked if Manta is). There are a few other things that GNU/Linux containers have that I think SmartOS Zones don't. Can you start application containers, or is the only mode for Zones a "boot" process with an init daemon? Also out of interest, do you have the concept of rootless zones -- zones entirely created by an unprivileged user?