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Big problem here is that Google, Facebook and other US based companies are not strict just on imposing US regulations and laws, but through the censorship also

by ivanhoe 10y ago

Big problem here is that Google, Facebook and other US based companies are not strict just on imposing US regulations and laws, but through the censorship also very much adhere to the mainstream US cultural and moral biases. And those are not always coherent with the rest of the world, US being much more conservative about a lot of issues. And big companies being big, they can impose such rules and moral criteria to the whole planet and that way they basically colonise other cultures, forcing people to change their behaviour in order to adhere to the mainstream US moral ideas. For instance in Balkans it was very common theme for parents to take photos of their babies having a first bath and to later show those photos around to family and friends. It's a sort of ex-Yugoslavia tradition from the days of first Polaroid cameras, we all had such photos of us as kids and still keep them in photo albums. But posting your child's naked photo on Facebook will get you account banned instantly and if you are US based can get you in a lot of trouble. So people stopped doing it. And not just that, but more and more people now accepted the position that it's not morally acceptable to take such photos, thus re-aligning their sense of morality with the moral norms imposed by social networks. Such global censorship is really changing the world.

mtgx 10y ago
I understand it's their "right" to censor whatever they want (well, the EU may disagree with that, though, given Google's dominant position in search, and the FTC should, too, but this is America, the land of "corporations are protected from punishment"), but it's also people's right to call them out on it. Just like it's people's right to call out Google [1], Facebook[2], and Twitter[3] for censoring links and hashtags for political reasons. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12146920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12146920 [2] - http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/24/facebook-calls-wikileaks-block-accident/ http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/24/facebook-calls-wiki... [3] - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/23/twitter-users-erupt-dncleaks-disappears-from-trend/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/23/twitter-user...
forgotpwtomain 10y ago
That's a very interesting point - I'd very much like to read a well-cited article/study on this if such is available, or is it just a personal observation?
Flimm 10y ago
The US might be more conservative compared to other Western countries, but there are many, many countries that are more eager to censor or hide content than the US.
- pessimizer 10y ago
  It's not strictly a matter of conservatism, it's a matter of US values being enforced as universal; or IMO in the limit as you approach maximum size for tech companies, the most conservative values of every important market being enforced in all markets. In the US, people are freaked out about fathers kissing their sons, but fine with teenagers having things done to them on video that wouldn't occur to most people to be possible until they see them being done to someone too young to drink legally. There's also been an escalation against depictions of cigarette smoking in the US, but constant depictions of drinking which are frowned upon in large parts of the world that have no issue with smoking. Every culture has taboos, but because of giant US internet companies mediating the content of people's communications, US taboos are currently more important than everyone else's lack of taboo. Ultimately, I see this leading to everyone's taboos becoming more important than everyone else's lack of taboo; I've heard of some of these platforms enforcing Lese Majeste laws.
syshum 10y ago
>>But posting your child's naked photo on Facebook will get you account banned instantly and if you are US based can get you in a lot of trouble Citation on the Legal Case law that now lists a Child Bath time photo as Child Porn that can get you into "lot of trouble" in the US
- forgotpwtomain 10y ago
  I downvoted this for being a lazy comment, just a simple google search would provide plenty of evidence that you asked for (you might not lose in court, but there are plenty of news articles about parents arrested after trying to print their baby pictures at kodak/wal-marts). Being arrested as a parent and potentially having your children taken into protective-services custody until you win or the charges are dropped is unquestionably "a lot of trouble".
- pessimizer 10y ago
  You don't have to be found guilty of anything to be in a "lot of trouble" in the US. For example: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32904451/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/parents-sue-walmart-over-kids-bath-pictures/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32904451/ns/us_news-crime_and_cour... ---- Lisa and Anthony "A.J." Demaree's three young daughters were taken away by Arizona Child Protective Services last fall when a Walmart employee found partially nude pictures of the girls on a camera memory stick taken to the store for processing, according to the suit. The Peoria couple's attorney said Walmart turned the photos over to police and the Demarees were not allowed to see their children for several days and didn't regain custody for a month while the state investigated. NO CHARGES Neither parent was charged with sexual abuse and they regained custody of their children — then ages 1 1/2, 4 and 5 — but the Demarees claim the incident inflicted lasting harm. ----
- soundwave106 10y ago
  The problem is not national case law per se (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2256 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2256). Firstly, there is a bit of a moral panic about this particular issue. The result is that there has been on occasion over-reactions to nothing more than Child Bath Time pictures. (One example from Wal-Mart: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32904451/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/parents-sue-walmart-over-kids-bath-pictures/#.U5sOdXJdXjs http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32904451/ns/us_news-crime_and_cour...). In addition, some states have laws that are much broader in scope. Ohio's rules for instance is merely "pandering obscenity involving a minor" (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.321 http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.321) and involves material, not images. Writers have been prosecuted for "child pornography" that was nothing more than written text under Ohio's law. (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/14/us/child-pornography-writer-gets-10-year-prison-term.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/14/us/child-pornography-write...) Realistically, I don't think a child bath picture gets anyone in "big trouble" if common sense prevailed. But there are definitely moral panic types that would probably "report" this type of picture. (EG: Take this story -- http://www.smh.com.au/national/facebook-bathtime-posting-lands-mum-in-hot-water-20140628-zspdv.html http://www.smh.com.au/national/facebook-bathtime-posting-lan..., also there's a celebrity-gossip-news type story involving a bath photo of Perez Hilton and his two year old son you can Google if you want to witness the fun reactions on this sort of thing...)

by ivanhoe 10y ago

mtgx 10y ago

I understand it's their "right" to censor whatever they want (well, the EU may disagree with that, though, given Google's dominant position in search, and the FTC should, too, but this is America, the land of "corporations are protected from punishment"), but it's also people's right to call them out on it. Just like it's people's right to call out Google [1], Facebook[2], and Twitter[3] for censoring links and hashtags for political reasons. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12146920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12146920 [2] - http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/24/facebook-calls-wikileaks-block-accident/ http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/24/facebook-calls-wiki... [3] - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/23/twitter-users-erupt-dncleaks-disappears-from-trend/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/23/twitter-user...

forgotpwtomain 10y ago

That's a very interesting point - I'd very much like to read a well-cited article/study on this if such is available, or is it just a personal observation?

Flimm 10y ago

The US might be more conservative compared to other Western countries, but there are many, many countries that are more eager to censor or hide content than the US.

pessimizer 10y ago
It's not strictly a matter of conservatism, it's a matter of US values being enforced as universal; or IMO in the limit as you approach maximum size for tech companies, the most conservative values of every important market being enforced in all markets. In the US, people are freaked out about fathers kissing their sons, but fine with teenagers having things done to them on video that wouldn't occur to most people to be possible until they see them being done to someone too young to drink legally. There's also been an escalation against depictions of cigarette smoking in the US, but constant depictions of drinking which are frowned upon in large parts of the world that have no issue with smoking. Every culture has taboos, but because of giant US internet companies mediating the content of people's communications, US taboos are currently more important than everyone else's lack of taboo. Ultimately, I see this leading to everyone's taboos becoming more important than everyone else's lack of taboo; I've heard of some of these platforms enforcing Lese Majeste laws.

syshum 10y ago

>>But posting your child's naked photo on Facebook will get you account banned instantly and if you are US based can get you in a lot of trouble Citation on the Legal Case law that now lists a Child Bath time photo as Child Porn that can get you into "lot of trouble" in the US

forgotpwtomain 10y ago
I downvoted this for being a lazy comment, just a simple google search would provide plenty of evidence that you asked for (you might not lose in court, but there are plenty of news articles about parents arrested after trying to print their baby pictures at kodak/wal-marts). Being arrested as a parent and potentially having your children taken into protective-services custody until you win or the charges are dropped is unquestionably "a lot of trouble".
pessimizer 10y ago
You don't have to be found guilty of anything to be in a "lot of trouble" in the US. For example: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32904451/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/parents-sue-walmart-over-kids-bath-pictures/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32904451/ns/us_news-crime_and_cour... ---- Lisa and Anthony "A.J." Demaree's three young daughters were taken away by Arizona Child Protective Services last fall when a Walmart employee found partially nude pictures of the girls on a camera memory stick taken to the store for processing, according to the suit. The Peoria couple's attorney said Walmart turned the photos over to police and the Demarees were not allowed to see their children for several days and didn't regain custody for a month while the state investigated. NO CHARGES Neither parent was charged with sexual abuse and they regained custody of their children — then ages 1 1/2, 4 and 5 — but the Demarees claim the incident inflicted lasting harm. ----
soundwave106 10y ago
The problem is not national case law per se (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2256 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2256). Firstly, there is a bit of a moral panic about this particular issue. The result is that there has been on occasion over-reactions to nothing more than Child Bath Time pictures. (One example from Wal-Mart: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32904451/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/parents-sue-walmart-over-kids-bath-pictures/#.U5sOdXJdXjs http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32904451/ns/us_news-crime_and_cour...). In addition, some states have laws that are much broader in scope. Ohio's rules for instance is merely "pandering obscenity involving a minor" (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.321 http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.321) and involves material, not images. Writers have been prosecuted for "child pornography" that was nothing more than written text under Ohio's law. (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/14/us/child-pornography-writer-gets-10-year-prison-term.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/14/us/child-pornography-write...) Realistically, I don't think a child bath picture gets anyone in "big trouble" if common sense prevailed. But there are definitely moral panic types that would probably "report" this type of picture. (EG: Take this story -- http://www.smh.com.au/national/facebook-bathtime-posting-lands-mum-in-hot-water-20140628-zspdv.html http://www.smh.com.au/national/facebook-bathtime-posting-lan..., also there's a celebrity-gossip-news type story involving a bath photo of Perez Hilton and his two year old son you can Google if you want to witness the fun reactions on this sort of thing...)