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Is it not possible to make it clear that your 2 cents is just a suggestion? This just seems like bad communication, and regardless of whose fault that is, the b

by baddox 10y ago

Is it not possible to make it clear that your 2 cents is just a suggestion? This just seems like bad communication, and regardless of whose fault that is, the boss might as well try to solve it.

paulsutter 10y ago
No it's really not possible. Whatever you say, it's going to weight down their thinking.
- ktRolster 10y ago
  What do you do if they really need improvement?
  - meric 10y ago
    Then it's more than 2 cents worth.
  - baddox 10y ago
    Perhaps say exactly that, for starters.
- baddox 10y ago
  It really is possible. I have received countless suggestions from my employer that we understand to be merely suggestions rather than orders. This seems like one of the most basic communication requirements in a company hierarchy. I'm surprised people seem to think it's impossible to achieve, when I would sooner think that it's impossible for a company to be functional without having achieved it.
  - NLips 10y ago
    This exactly. At my current employer, I feel I can oppose pretty much anything my managers tell me - technical or non-technical. I can say "I disagree because X", and the reply might come back as "OK - that makes sense", "Let's discuss this in more depth because Y", or "I'm going to overrule, you must do Y". If you have a functional relationship with your managees, they need to know they can disagree with you and that you know you're fallible and just need it pointed out. I always make sure that when I give technical feedback to others (whether higher or lower 'ranked' than me), they can come back and argue any bit they disagree with, and so far almost everyone has at some point.
Etzos 10y ago
I think this is the crux of the issue. The author's examples seem to have the sound of authority because they are coming from a person of authority. There are however, ways around this. For example, using the first quote the author used, instead of outright saying "maybe just a darker shade of blue there" the boss should question why a darker shade of blue wasn't chosen. Perhaps the employee has a good reason for it. Maybe they didn't consider that shade. Either way, a suggestion is made but doesn't sound like authoritative directive.
dietrichepp 10y ago
It's a "suggestion" from a direct superior in a hierarchical power structure. A little bit of communication isn't going to change the context. So no, it is not something simple like "bad communication". I think one of the main problems here is that people in power often feel like they have to justify themselves by giving technical feedback, even when it's not appropriate.
- Etzos 10y ago
  But there are ways of eliciting critical thought about the choices made and even about alternatives that the person in power has. It is "bad communication" in that the person in power is communicating their desire in a way that is perceived, even if just a little bit, as being a command. And I do believe there are effective ways to mitigate this.
  - dietrichepp 10y ago
    This conversation is a great example of bad communication, if you want a reference. Communication is not just about how you communicate, but when. Good communicators know how and when to listen, and they keep their mouth shut when it's appropriate. That's the lesson of this article. If that's not a problem for you—if you know when to speak and when to listen—then maybe this article won't help you, personally. And if my manager was always trying to elicit critical thought about trivial and mundane matters like font choice and colors on internal tools, then I'd want them to just shut up for a moment. I'd be glad to hear what your effective mitigation strategies are for giving unnecessary advice.
    - Etzos 10y ago
      I think the issue I have is that the author is taking an all or nothing approach. Either something is all wrong and a larger discussion must be had or nothing is worth noting. There is a huge range of things in between there, many of which may be small opinions. After reading the article a few more times and the comments here, I'm getting the impression the author meant "don't add pointless opinions or suggestions to things." The use of the phrase "my two cents" beguiles the author's intent, as in many cases that phrase is not used when one has a pointless opinion.

by baddox 10y ago

Is it not possible to make it clear that your 2 cents is just a suggestion? This just seems like bad communication, and regardless of whose fault that is, the boss might as well try to solve it.

paulsutter 10y ago

No it's really not possible. Whatever you say, it's going to weight down their thinking.

ktRolster 10y ago
What do you do if they really need improvement?
- meric 10y ago
  Then it's more than 2 cents worth.
- baddox 10y ago
  Perhaps say exactly that, for starters.
baddox 10y ago
It really is possible. I have received countless suggestions from my employer that we understand to be merely suggestions rather than orders. This seems like one of the most basic communication requirements in a company hierarchy. I'm surprised people seem to think it's impossible to achieve, when I would sooner think that it's impossible for a company to be functional without having achieved it.
- NLips 10y ago
  This exactly. At my current employer, I feel I can oppose pretty much anything my managers tell me - technical or non-technical. I can say "I disagree because X", and the reply might come back as "OK - that makes sense", "Let's discuss this in more depth because Y", or "I'm going to overrule, you must do Y". If you have a functional relationship with your managees, they need to know they can disagree with you and that you know you're fallible and just need it pointed out. I always make sure that when I give technical feedback to others (whether higher or lower 'ranked' than me), they can come back and argue any bit they disagree with, and so far almost everyone has at some point.

Etzos 10y ago

I think this is the crux of the issue. The author's examples seem to have the sound of authority because they are coming from a person of authority. There are however, ways around this. For example, using the first quote the author used, instead of outright saying "maybe just a darker shade of blue there" the boss should question why a darker shade of blue wasn't chosen. Perhaps the employee has a good reason for it. Maybe they didn't consider that shade. Either way, a suggestion is made but doesn't sound like authoritative directive.

dietrichepp 10y ago

It's a "suggestion" from a direct superior in a hierarchical power structure. A little bit of communication isn't going to change the context. So no, it is not something simple like "bad communication". I think one of the main problems here is that people in power often feel like they have to justify themselves by giving technical feedback, even when it's not appropriate.

Etzos 10y ago
But there are ways of eliciting critical thought about the choices made and even about alternatives that the person in power has. It is "bad communication" in that the person in power is communicating their desire in a way that is perceived, even if just a little bit, as being a command. And I do believe there are effective ways to mitigate this.
- dietrichepp 10y ago
  This conversation is a great example of bad communication, if you want a reference. Communication is not just about how you communicate, but when. Good communicators know how and when to listen, and they keep their mouth shut when it's appropriate. That's the lesson of this article. If that's not a problem for you—if you know when to speak and when to listen—then maybe this article won't help you, personally. And if my manager was always trying to elicit critical thought about trivial and mundane matters like font choice and colors on internal tools, then I'd want them to just shut up for a moment. I'd be glad to hear what your effective mitigation strategies are for giving unnecessary advice.
  - Etzos 10y ago
    I think the issue I have is that the author is taking an all or nothing approach. Either something is all wrong and a larger discussion must be had or nothing is worth noting. There is a huge range of things in between there, many of which may be small opinions. After reading the article a few more times and the comments here, I'm getting the impression the author meant "don't add pointless opinions or suggestions to things." The use of the phrase "my two cents" beguiles the author's intent, as in many cases that phrase is not used when one has a pointless opinion.