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I have a lot of questions about payments on WeChat: Do you need someone to verify your ID to get a WeChat account with a wallet? I don't think it would be lega

by aianus 10y ago

I have a lot of questions about payments on WeChat: Do you need someone to verify your ID to get a WeChat account with a wallet? I don't think it would be legal to implement something like that in North America without ID checks and a money transmission license, no? What are the fees? If non-zero, why do people prefer it to cash? If they are zero, how does WeChat make money on the feature? How is it connected to the banking system and how much does WeChat have to pay the banks for that hookup? I honestly don't see any innovation here, the tech is dirt simple. It's just too difficult to do in the US because of the PATRIOT act, greedy banks, and overzealous AML regulations.

IIAOPSW 10y ago
American in China here. I can answer this: >Do you need someone to verify your ID to get a WeChat account with a wallet? I set this up a while ago but I don't recall an explicit ID checking step. There might be something going on behind the scenes since your wechat account is closely tied to your phone number. >I don't think it would be legal to implement something like that in North America without ID checks and a money transmission license, no? Oh the irony that in this respect China is a libertarian paradise. The PRC isn't as paternalistic. They don't really make laws to stop people from taking personal risks. >What are the fees? Transferring to/from the bank is .05% I think. Transferring wallet to wallet is free. If they are zero, how does WeChat make money on the feature? I think right now the plan is still to run at break-even and/or loss until alipay dies. otoh with a sizeable amount of money sitting in their virtual wallets, tencent can effectively become a bank and do fractional reserve banking. Right now I'm just speculating. >I honestly don't see any innovation here, the tech is dirt simple. Often people on this forum are so concerned with the gears that they've missed the point of the car. End users don't care if the tech is literally built from sticks and stones. IMO there is a great wealth of good business ideas that require very little technical innovation. But programmers don't want to work on something which feels beneath them. >It's just too difficult to do in the US because of the PATRIOT act, greedy banks, and overzealous AML regulations. I agree completely. If the US keeps these arcane laws, other countries will bury us. I'm doing my part to change this situation by voting for..... oh shit.
- 20andup 10y ago
  "Often people on this forum are so concerned with the gears that they've missed the point of the car. End users don't care if the tech is literally built from sticks and stones. IMO there is a great wealth of good business ideas that require very little technical innovation. But programmers don't want to work on something which feels beneath them." As a programmer, you just blew my mind. I completely agree.
tiatia 10y ago
"I honestly don't see any innovation here, the tech is dirt simple." Well, the point is not inventing something. The point is "selling" it. WeChat might not have invented cell phone payments, but they made it ubiquitous in China. Counterexample: EBay. What a shitty company. They always had stuff with great potential. Paypal, Skype. But they never made anything more out of it. (Skype was even a good starting point to build a social network). Skype runs on the phone, combine Skype and Paypal on the phone to make easy and quick payments. Not it is too late. As far as I know eBay has sold Skype to MS and Paypal has been span off.
20andup 10y ago
> Do you need someone to verify your ID to get a WeChat account with a wallet? You need to enter your debit card number and your phone number that is registered with that bank. Its all connected automatically so that if you go to the bank and update your phone number, you can sign in with the new phone number on WeChat wallet the next day. > I don't think it would be legal to implement something like that in North America without ID checks and a money transmission license Its not hard to get when you are a big company with $$. > What are the fees? None. Although, I believe they started charging if you are transferring money more the some amount (can't remember, but its negligible) > If non-zero, why do people prefer it to cash? Convenience. So convenient. I hate going to the bank, line up and wait for an hour. You can transfer more cash with WeChat than you can at the ATM as well. > I honestly don't see any innovation here The innovation is simplicity and convenience. All those annoying things like paying electricity bill can all be done with a click on your phone. No more mailing or going to the convenience store to pay your bills. All done in 5 seconds. This is a classic example of a product 10x better than the alternative. WeChat payment isn't reinventing the wheel here and I argue thats a good thing. > The tech is dirt simple. The tech shouldn't be simple to prevent fraud. The UX of transferring money is simple, but the backend logic should be very strict given the amount of users, a single bug can cost money. (personal rant) The problem with people's perception of tech is that just cause the UX is simple, does not meant the programming is. It all depends on the product you are building. Google back in 2000 is a great example. One search bar, lots of tech behind it.
Johnie 10y ago
"I honestly don't see any innovation here, the tech is dirt simple." Innovation isn't just about technology. There are also innovation in the business model, service delivery, user experience, and many more. It's usually the innovation that are outside of tech that has significant impact. See: https://www.doblin.com/ten-types https://www.doblin.com/ten-types http://www.slideshare.net/openinnovation/10-types-of-innovation http://www.slideshare.net/openinnovation/10-types-of-innovat...

by aianus 10y ago

IIAOPSW 10y ago

American in China here. I can answer this: >Do you need someone to verify your ID to get a WeChat account with a wallet? I set this up a while ago but I don't recall an explicit ID checking step. There might be something going on behind the scenes since your wechat account is closely tied to your phone number. >I don't think it would be legal to implement something like that in North America without ID checks and a money transmission license, no? Oh the irony that in this respect China is a libertarian paradise. The PRC isn't as paternalistic. They don't really make laws to stop people from taking personal risks. >What are the fees? Transferring to/from the bank is .05% I think. Transferring wallet to wallet is free. If they are zero, how does WeChat make money on the feature? I think right now the plan is still to run at break-even and/or loss until alipay dies. otoh with a sizeable amount of money sitting in their virtual wallets, tencent can effectively become a bank and do fractional reserve banking. Right now I'm just speculating. >I honestly don't see any innovation here, the tech is dirt simple. Often people on this forum are so concerned with the gears that they've missed the point of the car. End users don't care if the tech is literally built from sticks and stones. IMO there is a great wealth of good business ideas that require very little technical innovation. But programmers don't want to work on something which feels beneath them. >It's just too difficult to do in the US because of the PATRIOT act, greedy banks, and overzealous AML regulations. I agree completely. If the US keeps these arcane laws, other countries will bury us. I'm doing my part to change this situation by voting for..... oh shit.

20andup 10y ago
"Often people on this forum are so concerned with the gears that they've missed the point of the car. End users don't care if the tech is literally built from sticks and stones. IMO there is a great wealth of good business ideas that require very little technical innovation. But programmers don't want to work on something which feels beneath them." As a programmer, you just blew my mind. I completely agree.

tiatia 10y ago

"I honestly don't see any innovation here, the tech is dirt simple." Well, the point is not inventing something. The point is "selling" it. WeChat might not have invented cell phone payments, but they made it ubiquitous in China. Counterexample: EBay. What a shitty company. They always had stuff with great potential. Paypal, Skype. But they never made anything more out of it. (Skype was even a good starting point to build a social network). Skype runs on the phone, combine Skype and Paypal on the phone to make easy and quick payments. Not it is too late. As far as I know eBay has sold Skype to MS and Paypal has been span off.

20andup 10y ago

> Do you need someone to verify your ID to get a WeChat account with a wallet? You need to enter your debit card number and your phone number that is registered with that bank. Its all connected automatically so that if you go to the bank and update your phone number, you can sign in with the new phone number on WeChat wallet the next day. > I don't think it would be legal to implement something like that in North America without ID checks and a money transmission license Its not hard to get when you are a big company with $$. > What are the fees? None. Although, I believe they started charging if you are transferring money more the some amount (can't remember, but its negligible) > If non-zero, why do people prefer it to cash? Convenience. So convenient. I hate going to the bank, line up and wait for an hour. You can transfer more cash with WeChat than you can at the ATM as well. > I honestly don't see any innovation here The innovation is simplicity and convenience. All those annoying things like paying electricity bill can all be done with a click on your phone. No more mailing or going to the convenience store to pay your bills. All done in 5 seconds. This is a classic example of a product 10x better than the alternative. WeChat payment isn't reinventing the wheel here and I argue thats a good thing. > The tech is dirt simple. The tech shouldn't be simple to prevent fraud. The UX of transferring money is simple, but the backend logic should be very strict given the amount of users, a single bug can cost money. (personal rant) The problem with people's perception of tech is that just cause the UX is simple, does not meant the programming is. It all depends on the product you are building. Google back in 2000 is a great example. One search bar, lots of tech behind it.

Johnie 10y ago

"I honestly don't see any innovation here, the tech is dirt simple." Innovation isn't just about technology. There are also innovation in the business model, service delivery, user experience, and many more. It's usually the innovation that are outside of tech that has significant impact. See: https://www.doblin.com/ten-types https://www.doblin.com/ten-types http://www.slideshare.net/openinnovation/10-types-of-innovation http://www.slideshare.net/openinnovation/10-types-of-innovat...