4 ms·

Title is absurdly overhyped. As noted, this is currently limited to diplomats and heads of state (!). Talk is cheap in the AU, and even in the unlikely event

Title is absurdly overhyped. As noted, this is currently limited to diplomats and heads of state (!). Talk is cheap in the AU, and even in the unlikely event that they do manage to "create the conditions for member states to issue the passport to their citizens", it's likely to end up a boondoggle like the APEC Business Travel Card: https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/APEC https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/APEC Which also grants visa-free travel to APEC economies, but only if you can fulfill a huge list of mostly arbitrary conditions that de facto make it impossible to apply for unless you're sitting in the C-suite of a listed company, have someone to do the paperwork for you and travel a lot.

ajarmst 10y ago
Agreed. Judging by the list of current territorial disputes in Africa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes#Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes#A...), we're a ways from 'borderless'. Even in the EU, the refugee crisis has made it pretty clear that there are still quite a few borders that people are willing to kill and die over. I agree that improving human mobility and trade can have enormous value, but pretending that doing that is easy (or merely a matter of issuing press releases) does no one any favours.
drawnwren 10y ago
While your points about the AU Passport are probably correct, I know a very poor and normal American and Australian with the APEC cards. Neither are affiliated with any companies.
- jpatokal 10y ago
  Dunno about the US, but unless your Oz friend is a high gov't official, that seems to be in contradiction with the posted guidelines: * * * You are either: * the Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Chief Financial Officer (CFO) or regional or country head of a registered business entity * an owner or director of a registered business entity * a Board member of a registered business entity * the CEO or CFO of an Australian-based business peak body * an employee of a registered business entity nominated by the CEO, CFO, regional head, owner or director of the organisation. * a senior government official – contact us for the eligibility requirements before you apply.
  - nrp 10y ago
    In the US, the requirements are looser. If you have Global Entry, you basically just need to apply, pay a fee, and state your business purpose for needing it in an interview. The APEC card granted to US citizens doesn't allow for visa-free entry like most other countries do though. It basically just gives you access to faster immigration lanes. https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs/us-apec-business-travel-card-program-frequently-asked-questions2 https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs/us-apec...
  - amatix 10y ago
    In NZ I had one as a junior engineer in 2004-2006 who travelled to SE Asia regularly (6 times a year). Skipped all the faff of applying for Chinese visas (at the time: at the land border they're quick, but you need to get in advance before flying in). And got diplomatic lane at all the other airports which was nice :) While it says "4-6 months" to get the full card, you get your important countries within a month and they send you new cards as others come through. Current requirements in NZ look to be: > The APEC Business Travel Card is available to New Zealand business people engaged in trade and investment activities, who: > * are nationals of New Zealand and hold a New Zealand passport > * travel frequently to conduct trade and investment activities in participating APEC countries > * have not been convicted of a criminal offence, or deported from, or asked to leave, or been refused entry, or otherwise excluded entry from any country. Well worth it. (edit: formatting)
  - daemin 10y ago
    It's not actually that hard to be an owner or director of a registered business entity (In Australia). Just apply to form a company to ASIC, pay the registration fee, then pay a yearly fee and file a tax return.
    - jpatokal 10y ago
      Read on: said entity also has to have demonstrable evidence of business ties to APEC countries. https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/APEC https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/APEC
- maverick_iceman 10y ago
  Anecdata?
eigenvector 10y ago
Your comments on the APEC BTC program are a little off-base. The entire scheme is based on reciprocity. The requirements for participation, and for having foreign nationals' cards endorsed for visa-free travel to a particular state, are up to each participating state. In your case, Australia has imposed very stringent requirements for participation by its own nationals, which in turn apply to foreign nationals wishing to have their BTC endorsed for visa-free travel to Australia. I suspect it has done this because it doesn't want every Dick, Tom and Harry in, say, Thailand or Vietnam having visa-free access to Australia. But because of reciprocity, you must suffer the same requirements your government is imposing on other APEC nationals. Likewise, the US and Canada have joined on a provisional basis and since they are not providing visa-free access to other APEC countries, holders of US and Canada issued BTCs don't receive any visa-waiver benefits. Don't discount the program just because your country is an outlier in its (lack of) participation.
- jpatokal 10y ago
  I'm calling APEC BTC a boondoggle because it's useless to the vast majority of actual frequent travelers in APAC. (I used to work in Singapore in a near-100%-travel job. I couldn't get one, and neither could anybody else in my office.) I fully understand the political reasons that make it so, but that doesn't make it any more useful for the hoi polloi. And my strong suspicion is that the AU passport will end up the same: otherwise, if anybody could truly use it to go anywhere, everybody would use it to GTFO from Somalia, Eritrea, the Congo, CAR etc.
Noseshine 10y ago
I (now) agree. I too was a little hyped when I read articles about this, but here is a much less hyped article on NPR that puts things into perspective. http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/07/20/486640594/africa-unveils-all-africa-passport-but-so-far-only-2-people-have-one http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/07/20/48664059... For example: > Currently, intra-African trade is at 11 percent — the lowest level of intra- > continental trading in the world. (Asia is way above 40 percent.) And the > future of African economies depends more on increasing trade among Africans > than making deals with China.

ajarmst 10y ago

Agreed. Judging by the list of current territorial disputes in Africa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes#Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes#A...), we're a ways from 'borderless'. Even in the EU, the refugee crisis has made it pretty clear that there are still quite a few borders that people are willing to kill and die over. I agree that improving human mobility and trade can have enormous value, but pretending that doing that is easy (or merely a matter of issuing press releases) does no one any favours.

drawnwren 10y ago

While your points about the AU Passport are probably correct, I know a very poor and normal American and Australian with the APEC cards. Neither are affiliated with any companies.

jpatokal 10y ago
Dunno about the US, but unless your Oz friend is a high gov't official, that seems to be in contradiction with the posted guidelines: * * * You are either: * the Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Chief Financial Officer (CFO) or regional or country head of a registered business entity * an owner or director of a registered business entity * a Board member of a registered business entity * the CEO or CFO of an Australian-based business peak body * an employee of a registered business entity nominated by the CEO, CFO, regional head, owner or director of the organisation. * a senior government official – contact us for the eligibility requirements before you apply.
- nrp 10y ago
  In the US, the requirements are looser. If you have Global Entry, you basically just need to apply, pay a fee, and state your business purpose for needing it in an interview. The APEC card granted to US citizens doesn't allow for visa-free entry like most other countries do though. It basically just gives you access to faster immigration lanes. https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs/us-apec-business-travel-card-program-frequently-asked-questions2 https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs/us-apec...
- amatix 10y ago
  In NZ I had one as a junior engineer in 2004-2006 who travelled to SE Asia regularly (6 times a year). Skipped all the faff of applying for Chinese visas (at the time: at the land border they're quick, but you need to get in advance before flying in). And got diplomatic lane at all the other airports which was nice :) While it says "4-6 months" to get the full card, you get your important countries within a month and they send you new cards as others come through. Current requirements in NZ look to be: > The APEC Business Travel Card is available to New Zealand business people engaged in trade and investment activities, who: > * are nationals of New Zealand and hold a New Zealand passport > * travel frequently to conduct trade and investment activities in participating APEC countries > * have not been convicted of a criminal offence, or deported from, or asked to leave, or been refused entry, or otherwise excluded entry from any country. Well worth it. (edit: formatting)
- daemin 10y ago
  It's not actually that hard to be an owner or director of a registered business entity (In Australia). Just apply to form a company to ASIC, pay the registration fee, then pay a yearly fee and file a tax return.
  - jpatokal 10y ago
    Read on: said entity also has to have demonstrable evidence of business ties to APEC countries. https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/APEC https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/APEC
maverick_iceman 10y ago
Anecdata?

eigenvector 10y ago

Your comments on the APEC BTC program are a little off-base. The entire scheme is based on reciprocity. The requirements for participation, and for having foreign nationals' cards endorsed for visa-free travel to a particular state, are up to each participating state. In your case, Australia has imposed very stringent requirements for participation by its own nationals, which in turn apply to foreign nationals wishing to have their BTC endorsed for visa-free travel to Australia. I suspect it has done this because it doesn't want every Dick, Tom and Harry in, say, Thailand or Vietnam having visa-free access to Australia. But because of reciprocity, you must suffer the same requirements your government is imposing on other APEC nationals. Likewise, the US and Canada have joined on a provisional basis and since they are not providing visa-free access to other APEC countries, holders of US and Canada issued BTCs don't receive any visa-waiver benefits. Don't discount the program just because your country is an outlier in its (lack of) participation.

jpatokal 10y ago
I'm calling APEC BTC a boondoggle because it's useless to the vast majority of actual frequent travelers in APAC. (I used to work in Singapore in a near-100%-travel job. I couldn't get one, and neither could anybody else in my office.) I fully understand the political reasons that make it so, but that doesn't make it any more useful for the hoi polloi. And my strong suspicion is that the AU passport will end up the same: otherwise, if anybody could truly use it to go anywhere, everybody would use it to GTFO from Somalia, Eritrea, the Congo, CAR etc.

Noseshine 10y ago

I (now) agree. I too was a little hyped when I read articles about this, but here is a much less hyped article on NPR that puts things into perspective. http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/07/20/486640594/africa-unveils-all-africa-passport-but-so-far-only-2-people-have-one http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/07/20/48664059... For example: > Currently, intra-African trade is at 11 percent — the lowest level of intra- > continental trading in the world. (Asia is way above 40 percent.) And the > future of African economies depends more on increasing trade among Africans > than making deals with China.