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And here's the biggest lie of them all -- both sides do it. Not merely a world where politicians and media lie – they have always lied – but one where t

by x0x0 10y ago

And here's the biggest lie of them all -- both sides do it. Not merely a world where politicians and media lie – they have always lied – but one where they don’t care whether they tell the truth or not. It's not politicians. It's Republicans and the pro-Brexit camp. I'm not saying every Democratic politician is perfect, but there simply are no widespread beliefs in the Democratic party or base equivalent to * 43% of republicans believe Obama was born abroad [1] * the usual lies about anthropogenic global warming * Iraq had WMDs * Sarah Palin or Donald Trump are fit for office * crime is up (it's down; American hasn't been this safe in ~50 years) * racism doesn't exist, or anti-white racism exists [1] http://www.salon.com/2015/09/14/a_staggering_number_of_republicans_believe_president_obama_is_a_muslim/ http://www.salon.com/2015/09/14/a_staggering_number_of_repub...

aaron-lebo 10y ago
I really really don't want to get in an argument about politics, but if you really believe what you are saying you need to look yourself in the mirror. > anti-white racism exists Yeah, so Dallas didn't happen. Go read some extreme BLM propaganda. Some (a lot) of it is blatantly racist. And if we're talking about lies, one only needs to look at Clinton's political career. Excuse me, you only need to look at the last month. That's the whole point of this article. Don't delude yourself. Both parties are controlled by a bunch of liars.
- sinxoveretothex 10y ago
  I can't talk about "extreme BLM propaganda" (although there are issues with some people directly affiliated with BLM), but there definitely are black race-extremists out there: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/black-separatist https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideo...
- logandavis 10y ago
  I should make a bot that trawls HN for the phrases "anti-white racism" and "reverse racism" and replies with the following: "When people say that reverse racism (AKA anti-white racism) does not exist, they are using the word 'racism' to mean 'a socioeconomic power structure that systematically disadvantages people of a particular race'. By this definition of racism, they are absolutely correct. There is no systematic oppression or disenfranchisement of white people in America. However, many people (especially those less familiar with modern feminist discourse) understand the word 'racism' to mean 'an instance of a person or group treating another person or group poorly because of their race'. By this definition, anti-white racism does exist. White people are certainly sometimes treated poorly because of their whiteness. Arguments over the existence of 'reverse racism' almost always occur between people who do not agree on the definition of the word 'racism'. Before you respond to this post about reverse racism, please consider the possibility that the person to whom you are responding is neither crazy nor stupid. Instead, they may simply be using a different definition of 'racism' than the one to which you subscribe. If you interpret their post with a different definition of 'racism' than your own, do you suddenly find it to be much more reasonable? If so, you may have been missing the point. It is always best to agree upon shared terminology before engaging in debate."
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    I'm in academia and have read Douglass, DuBois, Ellison, etc. I'm not unaware of definitions. Yes, African Americans are discriminated against. But it's not just them. It's anyone without power or money that is systematically disadvantaged. To make it a racial issue is to ignore that, and it's to fall into a divide and conquer strategy that people in power play off of.
    - vorotato 10y ago
      Classism exists, saying racism exists is not saying other forms of oppression don't exist...
orf 10y ago
> but there simply are no widespread beliefs in the Democratic party or base equivalent to If we are talking about beliefs here then surely there are,the widespread ones in the democrats, are just the inverse of most of the things you posted? I.e most of the democratic party believe in climate change. Irrespective of the 'truth' of such a belief it is widespread.
outlace 10y ago
I've thought similar things. While both sides absolutely lie and mislead, I hate when people demand that liberals and conservatives lie equally and about equally important things. Let's not delude ourselves in an effort to look objective or nonpartisan. If the data show one side lies disproportionately to the other, that's the truth. The fact is liberals don't deny scientific facts willy-nilly when they don't like the ramifications, a large percentage of conservatives do. While I haven't done extensive differential lie analysis, even if I did and shared it, it would be derided as partisan just because people start from the assumption of equality in lying between different groups.

by x0x0 10y ago

aaron-lebo 10y ago

I really really don't want to get in an argument about politics, but if you really believe what you are saying you need to look yourself in the mirror. > anti-white racism exists Yeah, so Dallas didn't happen. Go read some extreme BLM propaganda. Some (a lot) of it is blatantly racist. And if we're talking about lies, one only needs to look at Clinton's political career. Excuse me, you only need to look at the last month. That's the whole point of this article. Don't delude yourself. Both parties are controlled by a bunch of liars.

sinxoveretothex 10y ago
I can't talk about "extreme BLM propaganda" (although there are issues with some people directly affiliated with BLM), but there definitely are black race-extremists out there: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/black-separatist https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideo...
logandavis 10y ago
I should make a bot that trawls HN for the phrases "anti-white racism" and "reverse racism" and replies with the following: "When people say that reverse racism (AKA anti-white racism) does not exist, they are using the word 'racism' to mean 'a socioeconomic power structure that systematically disadvantages people of a particular race'. By this definition of racism, they are absolutely correct. There is no systematic oppression or disenfranchisement of white people in America. However, many people (especially those less familiar with modern feminist discourse) understand the word 'racism' to mean 'an instance of a person or group treating another person or group poorly because of their race'. By this definition, anti-white racism does exist. White people are certainly sometimes treated poorly because of their whiteness. Arguments over the existence of 'reverse racism' almost always occur between people who do not agree on the definition of the word 'racism'. Before you respond to this post about reverse racism, please consider the possibility that the person to whom you are responding is neither crazy nor stupid. Instead, they may simply be using a different definition of 'racism' than the one to which you subscribe. If you interpret their post with a different definition of 'racism' than your own, do you suddenly find it to be much more reasonable? If so, you may have been missing the point. It is always best to agree upon shared terminology before engaging in debate."
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  I'm in academia and have read Douglass, DuBois, Ellison, etc. I'm not unaware of definitions. Yes, African Americans are discriminated against. But it's not just them. It's anyone without power or money that is systematically disadvantaged. To make it a racial issue is to ignore that, and it's to fall into a divide and conquer strategy that people in power play off of.
  - vorotato 10y ago
    Classism exists, saying racism exists is not saying other forms of oppression don't exist...

orf 10y ago

> but there simply are no widespread beliefs in the Democratic party or base equivalent to If we are talking about beliefs here then surely there are,the widespread ones in the democrats, are just the inverse of most of the things you posted? I.e most of the democratic party believe in climate change. Irrespective of the 'truth' of such a belief it is widespread.

outlace 10y ago

I've thought similar things. While both sides absolutely lie and mislead, I hate when people demand that liberals and conservatives lie equally and about equally important things. Let's not delude ourselves in an effort to look objective or nonpartisan. If the data show one side lies disproportionately to the other, that's the truth. The fact is liberals don't deny scientific facts willy-nilly when they don't like the ramifications, a large percentage of conservatives do. While I haven't done extensive differential lie analysis, even if I did and shared it, it would be derided as partisan just because people start from the assumption of equality in lying between different groups.