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I live in London (UK), cycling is fairly popular here but I'm terrified of being killed so don't bother with it. I'm wondering how the US approaches bicycle sa

I live in London (UK), cycling is fairly popular here but I'm terrified of being killed so don't bother with it. I'm wondering how the US approaches bicycle safety as a whole, it's all well and good building a cycle lane, but in some places that's not feasible so you have to merge with traffic. How do US drivers treat cyclists?

nck4222 10y ago
>How do US drivers treat cyclists? Not well in my experience. Cyclists dying from accidents is unfortunately more common than it should be. Perception is changing and trending in the right direction, but the attitude that roads are meant for cars and not cyclists is too prevalent. That being said there are a lot of cyclists who don't obey traffic laws and bike dangerously as well. It will improve in time as cycling becomes more common and more people do it.
labrador 10y ago
There is plenty of animosity between cyclists and motorists. The chief complaint of motorists is that cyclists don't follow the rules, such as stopping at stop signs, and the chief complaint of cyclists is that we have to pretend that we are invisible because motorist don't look out for us. I think this awareness, even if hostile at times, actually keeps us on our toes and makes the roads safer.
hkmurakami 10y ago
>How do US drivers treat cyclists? Pretty poorly. Anecdotally: My friend was driven off the road intentionally by a driver. I was hit from behind in the hills and had to be helicoptered to a hospital.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  Wow. The first should class as attempted murder.
alistairSH 10y ago
I'm wondering how the US approaches bicycle safety as a whole As a whole, it doesn't. Cities and states are getting a bit better about planning alternative transit in dense areas, but it's a scattershot approach an varies widely by area. There tends to be significant resistance from drivers to giving up any space to alternative transportation. And leaders can't seem to decide if they want normal bike lanes, separated bike "highways", or something else. US drivers are terrible in general and awful when it comes to cyclists. Especially in urban and suburban areas, even where bikes are common. Lots of misdirected anger. I've had things thrown at me, been yelled at, passed far too closely, etc. All that said, the nation, and urban areas in particular, seem to be moving in the right direction. It's just a slow process.
- cmurf 10y ago
  A misconception, aided by separate infrastructure, and even seemingly innocuous things like "sharrows" is that cycling in regular traffic lanes is wrong/illegal/whatever, let alone taking the entire lane. There's widespread ignorance about bicycles being vehicles, and their operator being a driver with the same rights and responsibilities as a car. In the very rare altercation I have had with car drivers, it's really scary, as in life threatening. I'm not treated like a slow car but like I'm in the wrong place. And these are tertiary streets, not major strees where it's still legal for me to take a lane just probably rather imprudent. Pretty much being passed by too closely means you should be taking a lane. Sharing a lane implies room for a car, plus about 4 feet (1 foot for the cyclist, 3 feet in between car and cyclist), and that's from the door zone border. At least as much as close encounters are speeders. In a car, I don't really car if people go much faster than me or the speed limit. When I'm on a bike in a 25mph zone and people are doing 35+ I get nervous and rather super pissy. It makes it much, much more difficult to change lanes when people aren't sharing via speeding like this. If the resources were available to totally separate cars, cyclists, and pedestrians, that'd be great but the reality is we have to share.
  - alistairSH 10y ago
    I always wonder why drivers can't/won't treat me as they would a tractor. Nope, instead I'm treated like some sort of deviant who doesn't belong. And it's not just roads. There are several popular multi-use trails in my area, and intersections aren't any better - cars block crossings, don't yield, and generally act like assholes. Much of passing too close in done on purpose (along with an engine rev and sometimes some choice words). Taking a lane isn't going to fix that. Education, and penalties, might.
brndnmtthws 10y ago
Depending on how you look at it, cycling is probably safer than driving around cities. MMM has an interesting post about this issue: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safe...
stephengillie 10y ago
Few areas in the US have cyclists. Most areas are only connected by one highway system or another, and almost no highway system has any bicycle lanes. There are a few exceptions, like the Interstate 90 floating bridge over Lake Washington, which has a bicycle and pedestrian lane. While some cities have a reputation for bicycle friendliness, like Portland and Seattle on the West Coast, many merely give lip service to bicycle lanes. And that's only within cities, often the only way to travel between cities is hoping you can find a bus with a bicycle rack. This is sometimes impossible in rural areas. Yet there is a trend for bicycle renting, with automated bicycle rental stands in many areas of several large cities. In a way, it expresses the duality of American culture as well as any other measure.
- justinator 10y ago
  > And that's only within cities, often the only way to > travel between cities is hoping you can find a bus with a > bicycle rack. This is sometimes impossible in rural areas. Here's information on a national bicycle route system. It's actually not impossible at all. Many one-lane highways have generous enough shoulders that allow for safe cycling. I've crossed the country now 3 times on bike (and visiting 8 other countries while cycling). The first cross country route was established in 1976. [0] https://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/us-bicycle-route-system/ https://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/us-bicycle-...
steveax 10y ago
If you need to take the lane, take the lane. Do not offer what might look like a "squeeze by" to auto drivers but rather ride in the center of the lane and move to the right when it is safe to do so.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  I do this, I do get some occasional abuse about it but I'd rather that than get run into the kerb.
- crispyambulance 10y ago
  I agree, I think many novice cyclists inadvertently put themselves in dicey situations by being "too nice" to car traffic. It truly is safer to be visible and temporarily "in the way" than to ride in the door zone or gutter and risk getting doored, side-swiped or right-hooked. Being nice might momentarily appease an impatient driver, but it puts the cyclist at risk and makes them appear erratic to other traffic.
tonyedgecombe 10y ago
If you take a few simple precautions (don't ride while drunk, wear something visible, don't be a child and most importantly don't cycle up the inside of large vehicles) then it probably isn't as dangerous as you perceive.
nnd 10y ago
I can compare to biking in France and Germany, and it's much more dangerous in SF. Most of the drivers don't know to share the road with bicycles and don't respect cyclist in general. The other day I was hit by a car on purpose.
cmurf 10y ago
How do U.S. drivers treat each other, is the relevant question. And it's pretty impressive that it works as well as it does, considering in most states there's no driver's education requirement, public or private. If you can pass the written test, and a practical test by an examiner in a car, one time, you get a driver's license for life, in effect. Your uncle Bob's best buddy can teach you to drive. Renewals in most states are mainly a revenue source. Most will give a (very) basic eye test. None of the states I've lived in have required written or practical test for renewals. So yeah, considering the high number of barely qualified drivers, it works remarkably well (although I'm sure this is of no comfort to the families of tens of thousands killed in car accidents every year).
- rahkiin 10y ago
  How is uncle bobs best buddy allowed to give me lessons, if I am not allowed in the drivers seat, as I do not have a license yet? So you have to break the law first in order to be able to abide by it?
  - Someone 10y ago
    In the USA, you can get a learner's permit that allows you to drive (with some restrictions that vary by state. In some cases, that uncle Bob need not even be present) before you have a full license (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learner%27s_permit#United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learner%27s_permit#United_St...)
    - rahkiin 10y ago
      I think this is crazy. In the netherlands you take lessons and once the teacher thinks you will succeed you can take the practical exam. There is records available about the successrates per school so there is some healthy competition. You are not allowed to drive without a license. Only if you are paying a licensed teacher who is registered as a driving teacher and had education for just that. It is expensive but our roads feel safe. Very much for cyclists as well.
analog31 10y ago
I bike to work every day, year-round. I'm fortunate to live in a city that's fairly bike friendly. Still, my strategy is to avoid high traffic roads. The biggest problem is probably just inattention -- from my vantage point looking down into car windows, it's easy to see how many drivers are texting. A lot of drivers express a sort of authoritarian entitlement: Roads were made for cars, and paid for by drivers. There's no good reason to ride a bike on the roads, and cyclists are endangering themselves for no good reason. It does seem that driver behavior tends to improve when cycling gets more popular in a region.
- jdavis703 10y ago
  Skateboarding is even worse. Drivers see it as a toy, and get even more pissed that you're in the road. Sadly it's about the only option I have for reliably commuting as the train is too packed to bring a bike onto during rush hour.
  - wott 10y ago
    In my country, skateboarders and such are considered as pedestrians by law. Thus it is not legal to ride a skateboard on the road. Is it legal in yourstate/country?
    - jdavis703 10y ago
      It really depends, even from one city or town to another there's different laws. However in California electric-powered skateboards are allowed use of bike lanes (which are generally in the road). The sidewalks around here are either to crowded with pedestrians or in such bad shape as to make skateboarding virtually impossible (you might as well walk to your destination).
analog31 10y ago
I bike to work every day, year-round. I'm fortunate to live in a city that's fairly bike friendly. Still, my strategy is to avoid high traffic roads. The biggest problem is probably just inattention -- from my vantage point looking down into car windows, it's easy to see how many drivers are texting. A lot of drivers express a sort of authoritarian entitlement: Roads were made for cars, and paid for by drivers. There's no good reason to ride a bike on the roads, and cyclists are endangering themselves for no good reason.
jchrisa 10y ago
In Portland Oregon drivers are polite for the most part, especially when you have kids on your bike. The infrastructure is lacking and it takes newcomers a while to learn how to chill out but it basically works due to the culture.
Symbiote 10y ago
I lived and cycled in London for several years. Don't think about cycling on the roads you usually use, which are presumably the big ones you drive down or take the bus down. Look for the parallel roads, which are smaller and little used by cars. For instance, I used George Street and New Cavendish Street instead of Oxford Street. Or a different example, look at the roads south of Fulham Broadway Station, and see that the small ones are blocked for cars but allow cyclists to pass. TfL print free maps with the nicer streets marked.

nck4222 10y ago

>How do US drivers treat cyclists? Not well in my experience. Cyclists dying from accidents is unfortunately more common than it should be. Perception is changing and trending in the right direction, but the attitude that roads are meant for cars and not cyclists is too prevalent. That being said there are a lot of cyclists who don't obey traffic laws and bike dangerously as well. It will improve in time as cycling becomes more common and more people do it.

labrador 10y ago

There is plenty of animosity between cyclists and motorists. The chief complaint of motorists is that cyclists don't follow the rules, such as stopping at stop signs, and the chief complaint of cyclists is that we have to pretend that we are invisible because motorist don't look out for us. I think this awareness, even if hostile at times, actually keeps us on our toes and makes the roads safer.

hkmurakami 10y ago

>How do US drivers treat cyclists? Pretty poorly. Anecdotally: My friend was driven off the road intentionally by a driver. I was hit from behind in the hills and had to be helicoptered to a hospital.

jacquesm 10y ago
Wow. The first should class as attempted murder.

alistairSH 10y ago

I'm wondering how the US approaches bicycle safety as a whole As a whole, it doesn't. Cities and states are getting a bit better about planning alternative transit in dense areas, but it's a scattershot approach an varies widely by area. There tends to be significant resistance from drivers to giving up any space to alternative transportation. And leaders can't seem to decide if they want normal bike lanes, separated bike "highways", or something else. US drivers are terrible in general and awful when it comes to cyclists. Especially in urban and suburban areas, even where bikes are common. Lots of misdirected anger. I've had things thrown at me, been yelled at, passed far too closely, etc. All that said, the nation, and urban areas in particular, seem to be moving in the right direction. It's just a slow process.

cmurf 10y ago
A misconception, aided by separate infrastructure, and even seemingly innocuous things like "sharrows" is that cycling in regular traffic lanes is wrong/illegal/whatever, let alone taking the entire lane. There's widespread ignorance about bicycles being vehicles, and their operator being a driver with the same rights and responsibilities as a car. In the very rare altercation I have had with car drivers, it's really scary, as in life threatening. I'm not treated like a slow car but like I'm in the wrong place. And these are tertiary streets, not major strees where it's still legal for me to take a lane just probably rather imprudent. Pretty much being passed by too closely means you should be taking a lane. Sharing a lane implies room for a car, plus about 4 feet (1 foot for the cyclist, 3 feet in between car and cyclist), and that's from the door zone border. At least as much as close encounters are speeders. In a car, I don't really car if people go much faster than me or the speed limit. When I'm on a bike in a 25mph zone and people are doing 35+ I get nervous and rather super pissy. It makes it much, much more difficult to change lanes when people aren't sharing via speeding like this. If the resources were available to totally separate cars, cyclists, and pedestrians, that'd be great but the reality is we have to share.
- alistairSH 10y ago
  I always wonder why drivers can't/won't treat me as they would a tractor. Nope, instead I'm treated like some sort of deviant who doesn't belong. And it's not just roads. There are several popular multi-use trails in my area, and intersections aren't any better - cars block crossings, don't yield, and generally act like assholes. Much of passing too close in done on purpose (along with an engine rev and sometimes some choice words). Taking a lane isn't going to fix that. Education, and penalties, might.

brndnmtthws 10y ago

Depending on how you look at it, cycling is probably safer than driving around cities. MMM has an interesting post about this issue: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safe...

stephengillie 10y ago

Few areas in the US have cyclists. Most areas are only connected by one highway system or another, and almost no highway system has any bicycle lanes. There are a few exceptions, like the Interstate 90 floating bridge over Lake Washington, which has a bicycle and pedestrian lane. While some cities have a reputation for bicycle friendliness, like Portland and Seattle on the West Coast, many merely give lip service to bicycle lanes. And that's only within cities, often the only way to travel between cities is hoping you can find a bus with a bicycle rack. This is sometimes impossible in rural areas. Yet there is a trend for bicycle renting, with automated bicycle rental stands in many areas of several large cities. In a way, it expresses the duality of American culture as well as any other measure.

justinator 10y ago
> And that's only within cities, often the only way to > travel between cities is hoping you can find a bus with a > bicycle rack. This is sometimes impossible in rural areas. Here's information on a national bicycle route system. It's actually not impossible at all. Many one-lane highways have generous enough shoulders that allow for safe cycling. I've crossed the country now 3 times on bike (and visiting 8 other countries while cycling). The first cross country route was established in 1976. [0] https://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/us-bicycle-route-system/ https://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/us-bicycle-...

steveax 10y ago

If you need to take the lane, take the lane. Do not offer what might look like a "squeeze by" to auto drivers but rather ride in the center of the lane and move to the right when it is safe to do so.

tonyedgecombe 10y ago
I do this, I do get some occasional abuse about it but I'd rather that than get run into the kerb.
crispyambulance 10y ago
I agree, I think many novice cyclists inadvertently put themselves in dicey situations by being "too nice" to car traffic. It truly is safer to be visible and temporarily "in the way" than to ride in the door zone or gutter and risk getting doored, side-swiped or right-hooked. Being nice might momentarily appease an impatient driver, but it puts the cyclist at risk and makes them appear erratic to other traffic.

tonyedgecombe 10y ago

If you take a few simple precautions (don't ride while drunk, wear something visible, don't be a child and most importantly don't cycle up the inside of large vehicles) then it probably isn't as dangerous as you perceive.

nnd 10y ago

I can compare to biking in France and Germany, and it's much more dangerous in SF. Most of the drivers don't know to share the road with bicycles and don't respect cyclist in general. The other day I was hit by a car on purpose.

cmurf 10y ago

How do U.S. drivers treat each other, is the relevant question. And it's pretty impressive that it works as well as it does, considering in most states there's no driver's education requirement, public or private. If you can pass the written test, and a practical test by an examiner in a car, one time, you get a driver's license for life, in effect. Your uncle Bob's best buddy can teach you to drive. Renewals in most states are mainly a revenue source. Most will give a (very) basic eye test. None of the states I've lived in have required written or practical test for renewals. So yeah, considering the high number of barely qualified drivers, it works remarkably well (although I'm sure this is of no comfort to the families of tens of thousands killed in car accidents every year).

rahkiin 10y ago
How is uncle bobs best buddy allowed to give me lessons, if I am not allowed in the drivers seat, as I do not have a license yet? So you have to break the law first in order to be able to abide by it?
- Someone 10y ago
  In the USA, you can get a learner's permit that allows you to drive (with some restrictions that vary by state. In some cases, that uncle Bob need not even be present) before you have a full license (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learner%27s_permit#United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learner%27s_permit#United_St...)
  - rahkiin 10y ago
    I think this is crazy. In the netherlands you take lessons and once the teacher thinks you will succeed you can take the practical exam. There is records available about the successrates per school so there is some healthy competition. You are not allowed to drive without a license. Only if you are paying a licensed teacher who is registered as a driving teacher and had education for just that. It is expensive but our roads feel safe. Very much for cyclists as well.

analog31 10y ago

I bike to work every day, year-round. I'm fortunate to live in a city that's fairly bike friendly. Still, my strategy is to avoid high traffic roads. The biggest problem is probably just inattention -- from my vantage point looking down into car windows, it's easy to see how many drivers are texting. A lot of drivers express a sort of authoritarian entitlement: Roads were made for cars, and paid for by drivers. There's no good reason to ride a bike on the roads, and cyclists are endangering themselves for no good reason. It does seem that driver behavior tends to improve when cycling gets more popular in a region.

jdavis703 10y ago
Skateboarding is even worse. Drivers see it as a toy, and get even more pissed that you're in the road. Sadly it's about the only option I have for reliably commuting as the train is too packed to bring a bike onto during rush hour.
- wott 10y ago
  In my country, skateboarders and such are considered as pedestrians by law. Thus it is not legal to ride a skateboard on the road. Is it legal in yourstate/country?
  - jdavis703 10y ago
    It really depends, even from one city or town to another there's different laws. However in California electric-powered skateboards are allowed use of bike lanes (which are generally in the road). The sidewalks around here are either to crowded with pedestrians or in such bad shape as to make skateboarding virtually impossible (you might as well walk to your destination).

analog31 10y ago

jchrisa 10y ago

In Portland Oregon drivers are polite for the most part, especially when you have kids on your bike. The infrastructure is lacking and it takes newcomers a while to learn how to chill out but it basically works due to the culture.

Symbiote 10y ago

I lived and cycled in London for several years. Don't think about cycling on the roads you usually use, which are presumably the big ones you drive down or take the bus down. Look for the parallel roads, which are smaller and little used by cars. For instance, I used George Street and New Cavendish Street instead of Oxford Street. Or a different example, look at the roads south of Fulham Broadway Station, and see that the small ones are blocked for cars but allow cyclists to pass. TfL print free maps with the nicer streets marked.