9 ms·

The bicycle is making a comeback in US cities

89 points by antongribok 10y ago

michaelwww 10y ago
The true revolution has hit public consciousness yet and that is the rise of electric bicycles. I own one and nearly every time I ride it cross town I think again that it's nearly the perfect form of human transportation. It is said that pedal bicycles are the most efficient form of human transportation. With a motor and a lithium ion battery that charges up at a rate of 150W for 3 hours and then delivers 12-15 miles of transport at 20 mph, depending on much pedaling is done to assist uphill, and I imagine that you only increase that efficiency. Electric bikes are allowed to use the bike lanes in California, while fossil fuel powered motors are not, so bikes can take routes that beat all the car and truck traffic. I don't break a sweat riding an electric bike so I don't need to take a shower when arriving at work. Take the optimistic tone of this article and add electricity and you really have a revolution.
- artursapek 10y ago
  Are electric bicycles desirable mainly because of lower physical effort, or higher top speed? I am an avid cyclist in NYC and I don't think I would be comfortable going any faster than my current top speed. And I really enjoy the exercise. So why would I choose an electric bicycle over my traditional one?
  - kurttheviking 10y ago
    I live in SF and feel a similar way; cycling is dangerous enough at my relatively slow speed and offers exercise built into my every day routine.
  - hkmurakami 10y ago
    The one nice use case is for people discouraged by the distance of their commute (due to their fitness) or people discouraged by the one or two hills on their likely commute route. The electric assistance can push these folks over the hump.
    - cfallin 10y ago
      Anecdotally, I hear hills cited pretty often as a reason not to bike-commute. I live in Pittsburgh and the city is taking biking more and more seriously, but there's only so much one can do about topography. An electric boost could make a big difference for some. (Then again, if you live on the hill and work in the valley, the morning commute is pretty fun!)
  - criddell 10y ago
    To extend your range? But the ultimate answer is maybe you wouldn't choose an electric bicycle. That's ok.
  - Frondo 10y ago
    In my experience (as someone who cycles 50-75 miles a week) people go for the electric bikes for less exertion. Probably 3-4 times a week people on e-bikes pass me on hills, zooming along. They always seem to be heavier-set than your typical bike commuter, so if the motor's getting them out on the road and getting some exercise and fitness in, I think that is just fantastic. Anything to get people out of their cars! Maybe they'll even upgrade to a real bike some day :)
    - ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
      Not everyone is able bodied and has nice showers at work to change in.
      - Frondo 10y ago
        Happily, most people are able-bodied, and for those for whom a regular bike will never be an option, there remain cars, buses, light rail, electric bikes, and so on and so on. As for showering, I think that will probably start to matter less as time goes on. In the last few years, in the Pacific NW, I've noticed it's become somewhat acceptable to show up to meetings a bit sweaty, if you've just gotten off your bike. At least, among the business meetings I attend, of course.
        Locke1689 10y ago
        The Pacific Northwest is badly non-representative of most of America, especially the east coast.
        Frondo 10y ago
        Well, let me ask you--what is more likely to change in the next 10-15 years? Think we'll go back to higher standards of cleanliness in the Pacific Northwest, or think standards will relax on the east coast? Cause I assure you, things won't just stay the way they are. It's an honest question, really, I don't know! (though I know what I'd prefer!) What do you think?
        10y ago
  - yodsanklai 10y ago
    > Are electric bicycles desirable mainly because of lower physical effort, or higher top speed? I don't have one myself, but I know that in Europe, they can't go over 25km/h (higher than that, they're not considered as bicycles anymore) so the interest is to lower physical effort. > So why would I choose an electric bicycle over my traditional one? Not everybody enjoy exercising on their way to work, but even if they do, with electric assistance, they can cycle on longer/hillier commutes than what would be possible/convenient with a regular bike.
    - holri 10y ago
      Yes but the downside is worser handling, more weight, added complexity, added price and maintenance. Not worth in my case (I tried it)
      - bdwalter 10y ago
        Many of the folks considering e-bikes here are not generally comparing them to traditional bikes, but rather with cars. In which case all of the negatives you cite here, become positives.
  - michaelwww 10y ago
    In my case it's primarily the assistance the motor gives me up hill. I'm nearly 60 and my knees are worn out so pedaling unassisted is just too painful. There's quite a bit of ego involved among physically fit riders, riders who are into it for physical fitness I should say, but I feel they're not considering that not everyone can ride a bike without some help. And not only that, if you live in a hilly city and there are no showers at work, your coworkers might not appreciate you riding a bike to work.
    - vanderZwan 10y ago
      > I'm nearly 60 and my knees are worn out so pedaling unassisted is just too painful. Electric assistance is not uncommon in the Netherlands among the 50+ age category, and we don't even have significant hills to speak of.
  - michaelwww 10y ago
    Not higher top speed. Unless you change your gear ratio's, the electric motor can't keep up with the normal top speed going down hill.
  - kernelbandwidth 10y ago
    I bike to/from work (on a regular bicycle) over a few hills. I enjoy the exercise in general, but I would still like a electric bike for the summer; a sunny Texas day with 98+ Fahrenheit weather is rough.
  - tirant 10y ago
    Where I live (Netherlands) they are mainly used by seniors (60+) or people covering long distances. Top speed is limited to 25KM/h, and that is more than enough to get quickly to any place on your range distance. They are also useful in cities (e.g. Madrid) where hills maybe problematic for normal bikes.
  - zardo 10y ago
    The higher speed uphills is appealing to me. If I could climb at 20mph it would shave a lot of time off of my commute, it would probably be as fast as driving most days. The other appealing thing would be hailing a trailer for groceries and still being able to make it up the steepest hills.
    - jchrisa 10y ago
      I have an E assist cargo bike and it's average speed is close to its top speed (20 mph). It's not that it's faster, it's that I'm not going slow very often. It also makes me happy to stop at stop signs. I rode a Stromer for a while it's best feature was a top speed that could easily exceed the auto speed limit on local bike routes (some of those that are still 25 mph instead of 20). Taking the lane at the speed limit sends a clear message to cut through drivers.
  - nojvek 10y ago
    I'd love to upgrade my bike to an electric one. A couple of things holding me back. In Seattle in rains a lot. So for those days I use alternate commute. Electric bikes are pretty expensive. I wish there was a monthly payment option like car loans.
- blastrat 10y ago
  most electric bikes I see are ridden dangerously to pedestrians; by NYC deliverymen (doubt I've ever seen a woman on one), swiftly and silently sneaking up to run you down on sidewalks or the wrong way on one way streets. I would vote hard in favor of limiting speed and or requiring them to make artificial noise, unless we could get some other type of pervasive and privacy intrusive monitoring of riders' behavior. I sometimes ride my pedal bike the wrong way, and sometimes on sidewalks (two avenue blocks out of your way in NYC to get around the block is quite a long distance) but I always do it "respectfully": slowly and yielding the right of way. Till there is a system in place to effectively educate the constant churn of the class of people who deliver goods, I am soooo anti. electic bikes are technically illegal in NYC; it's a law that is never enforced. edit, addition: the mix of cars vs pedestrians works as well as it traditionally has worked and I and many other people don't have a problem with it; due to various types of complexity theory, adding bikes to the mix does not work as well, it particularly degrades the pedestrian experience, and is quite dangerous for bikers. I find electric bikes even more destabilizing and most objectionable, because they are faster and quieter, and I think because they are favored by a statistical sample that skews toward more selfish/self-interested. Why is it so hard for discussion groups to accept that somebody has an opinion with muddying it up? What I said originally should not require so much refinement for people to grasp that it's my one little opinion and it doesn't threaten your worldview more than your worldview needs to be shaken up.
  - andrewliebchen 10y ago
    Cars are by far the most dangerous things to pedestrians. If electric bikes get people out of their cars, pedestrians will be better off on balance. Rather than banning electric bikes, NYC could to better to build separate infrastructure for bikes.
    - ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
      That has almost nothing to do with the post you responded to. Electric bikes are faster than normal bikes, and people treat them as mini mopeds rather than normal bikes (and there's already a problem with bicycle/pedestrian collisions).
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  I've just ordered a kit for one of my bikes, I'm hoping it will allow me to replace more car journeys.
- habosa 10y ago
  I don't have an e-bike but I agree completely. The only downside to my bike is that I can't really go anywhere in nice clothes because I'm likely to break a sweat. An e-bike would be a true all-purpose city vehicle.
- Theodores 10y ago
  It is incredibly difficult to sell electric bikes in a normal bike shop, for every one sold there are hundreds or maybe even thousands of regular bikes sold. This is a pity as electric bikes can be very good. Some electric bikes are a lot heavier than they need to be, you have a rear rack that contains brackets to house boxes that have more brackets on them and deep inside those boxes are some batteries held at the worst place for centre of gravity. All of this needs to be done as a system with the battery made a structural part of the frame. Then the bike as a whole can go back to being performance oriented instead of senior style. In my opinion the extra torque more than makes up for the weight when it comes to handling. Electric bikes don't feel heavy when you are riding one, it is just getting the thing up the stairs to your flat at the end of the day that is a pain. I hope some player from outside the bicycle industry - a Tesla - re-engineers the electric bicycle to make it a whole new product. As it is the electric bicycle just does not catch the public imagination.
- jdavis703 10y ago
  Not just electric bikes, but also electric skateboards and other electric personal mobility devices. Unlike bikes these things can be brought on public transit, and greatly reduce time spent on the last mile (or two). For example the boosted board can travel 25 MPH, which is much faster than rush hour traffic, and even at times the grade-seperated light rail in San Francisco.
- patrickburke 10y ago
  One ingredient is missing, some innovation to secure the bike against theft, since $1000 electric is a target.
djhworld 10y ago
I live in London (UK), cycling is fairly popular here but I'm terrified of being killed so don't bother with it. I'm wondering how the US approaches bicycle safety as a whole, it's all well and good building a cycle lane, but in some places that's not feasible so you have to merge with traffic. How do US drivers treat cyclists?
- nck4222 10y ago
  >How do US drivers treat cyclists? Not well in my experience. Cyclists dying from accidents is unfortunately more common than it should be. Perception is changing and trending in the right direction, but the attitude that roads are meant for cars and not cyclists is too prevalent. That being said there are a lot of cyclists who don't obey traffic laws and bike dangerously as well. It will improve in time as cycling becomes more common and more people do it.
- labrador 10y ago
  There is plenty of animosity between cyclists and motorists. The chief complaint of motorists is that cyclists don't follow the rules, such as stopping at stop signs, and the chief complaint of cyclists is that we have to pretend that we are invisible because motorist don't look out for us. I think this awareness, even if hostile at times, actually keeps us on our toes and makes the roads safer.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  >How do US drivers treat cyclists? Pretty poorly. Anecdotally: My friend was driven off the road intentionally by a driver. I was hit from behind in the hills and had to be helicoptered to a hospital.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    Wow. The first should class as attempted murder.
- alistairSH 10y ago
  I'm wondering how the US approaches bicycle safety as a whole As a whole, it doesn't. Cities and states are getting a bit better about planning alternative transit in dense areas, but it's a scattershot approach an varies widely by area. There tends to be significant resistance from drivers to giving up any space to alternative transportation. And leaders can't seem to decide if they want normal bike lanes, separated bike "highways", or something else. US drivers are terrible in general and awful when it comes to cyclists. Especially in urban and suburban areas, even where bikes are common. Lots of misdirected anger. I've had things thrown at me, been yelled at, passed far too closely, etc. All that said, the nation, and urban areas in particular, seem to be moving in the right direction. It's just a slow process.
api_or_ipa 10y ago
I don't understand why so many people use their cars for every chore in the Bay Area. A decent bike commuter can do 16 mph which is plenty fast for most trips. It's also 'free' in that you burn lunch instead of fuel.
- SirensOfTitan 10y ago
  I would love to ride a bike around SF, but the thought of being hit by a car is sort of terrifying to me. As a result I ride the bus everywhere: it's non ideal.
  - abrkn 10y ago
    I was looking into buying a bike for commuting from Mission to SoMa until I noticed how there are multiple hit and runs reported every week. Several times have I witnessed Uber/Lyft drivers (with me as a passenger) endanger bicyclists during the morning commute. How do they solve this in other cities?
    - benologist 10y ago
      Cars are starting to report collisions automatically so soon it will be very difficult to escape unnoticed, especially when they start reporting on other vehicles around them. At that point collisions, speeding, reckless driving etc accountability will be as automatic as red light cameras and people will drive responsibly all the time because how they drive will always be under so much scrutiny. http://abc7chicago.com/technology/car-auto-dials-911-to-report-accident-after-driver-allegedly-commits-hit-and-run/1109554/ http://abc7chicago.com/technology/car-auto-dials-911-to-repo...
    - Maultasche 10y ago
      The Netherlands does this very well. Car traffic is nicely separated from bicycle traffic, which is nicely separated from pedestrians. There's even an entire nationwide network of bicycle paths. I suggest using Google street view to look around. Usually, you can see a bike path off on the side of the road that's nicely separated from the cars. I don't think that Google has gotten around to taking street view pictures in all the bike-only paths in more rural areas, although I hear they've done that in some places. The Netherlands has been committed to improving bicycle use and safety since the 1950s, so they've built up a lot of infrastructure with that in mind. In fact, I hear that in any accident in the Netherlands involving a car and bicycle, the car is always at fault unless they can prove that the bicycle was being reckless. It makes cars a lot more careful, and encourages riding a bike instead of driving. From what I hear, the effect is from all this that automobile traffic in is pretty congested and slow. The Dutch government seems to be making a general policy of discouraging car driving and encouraging alternate forms of transportation, as a means to unclog the roads and reduce pollution. The Netherlands is very dense, so pollution would be very bad if all those people were driving everywhere. I'm not Dutch, but sometimes I wish I were, because I would very much like to bike to work on a regular basis. My city in California has some bike lanes, but they aren't very wide and are right next to the cars. They've been starting to build bike paths that are completely separate from roads, but we don't yet have a city-wide bike path network yet. I suspect we'll eventually get one, but it will be decades away. I'll go biking with my children on quiet residential streets or the bike paths, but there's no way I'd take them on the bike lanes on the bigger roads.
Havoc 10y ago
Just bought a bike this weekend. Great fun thanks to cycle lanes along the beach. Don't see it being a viable mode of transportation for day-to-day though. >a bike lane next to [...] church infringed on religious freedom by preventing members from parking. That's a pretty bizarre interpretation of "religious freedom".
pasbesoin 10y ago
I want three things: 1) Stay dry. 2) Not wear out my normal nor "dressy" clothes. 3) Ride safely. I can even forgo # 1 if I get to change and shower at the end. So... you want cyclists? Find out what's really keeping them off bikes, and fix it. P.S. And theft. You can just park your car and walk away from it -- mostly.
- Zigurd 10y ago
  Some of these things could be solved with better electronics. Like providing tagging/tracking technology that would keep thieves away, and a proximity warning that would flash a bright taillight at cars coming too close or approaching too quickly.
nashashmi 10y ago
In New York, one thing I have strongly noticed is the decrease in smog even on rush hour crowded avenues. This alone has made it drastically healthier to go outside whether it be on bike or walk. Just a few more years and we will be able to avoid long trips to the parks and do recreational walking immediately outside of our doors.
Zigurd 10y ago
There are some bright spots, like Cambridge, but there needs to be vastly better enforcement of having drivers keep a distance from cyclists. If cyclist-aware autonomous braking were required for cars, that might do it in a few years. But American drivers are angry and incompetent.
intrasight 10y ago
I've commuted by bicycle while in school in Toronto and at a couple of jobs since. But I've ceased to be interested in sharing roads with cars. The weight-scale of the two vehicle types is just too different, and I don't bounce as well as I used to. I do love biking on trails though, and welcome the additional trails being built around the nation and here in Pittsburgh.
cauterized 10y ago
If there were protected bike lanes along my commute (about 3 miles), I'd cycle to work in a heartbeat. (Well, showers at the office, preferably clean ones, would also help.) Instead, only about 25% of the trip has bike lanes at all. And they share a curb with the buses (which might be the worst arrangement possible, since cyclists and bus drivers have to keep dodging one another in and out of the lane - endangering the cyclists and slowing the buses). Instead, I walk when the weather is right. Cycling right beside cars would scare the shit out of me.
- dominotw 10y ago
  I had 3 of my coworkers killed in Chicago in last 2 years. One to to drunk driver, 2 to visibility issues( one was extreme downhill curve where a cyclist would suddenly appear out of nowhere. Other was a truck making a left turn between two cars, no way the truck driver could have seen the cyclist) . Only people with a deathwish would ride a bike on streets shared by other vehicles. Don't be stupid, think of your family.
  - beardicus 10y ago
    > Only people with a deathwish would ride a bike on streets shared by other vehicles. I'll grant that the risk of death in an accident is probably higher on bike, but the risk of death by being sedentary should also not be ignored in the calculation. I don't have a deathwish, and I commuted 30 miles a day on a bike for years. It was great. I've never been in better shape. We have a problem with cars killing people with alarming regularity. The solution probably isn't to avoid riding bikes or being a pedestrian.
    - dominotw 10y ago
      surely there are better ways to get in shape that don't involve risking your life on daily basis.
      - gleenn 10y ago
        I think you're being pretty harsh. I don't have a death wish, I ride my bike frequently in SF because I love to ride, it's great exercise, it's by far the fastest way to get to work, and it's one less bicyclist-killing machine on the road. From a philosophical point of view, if everyone did what I did, there would be a lot of upsides for everyone. If everyone decided to ride a car, there would be many downsides.
marknutter 10y ago
I really hope that motorcycles make a comeback as well. They are incredibly fuel efficient, they don't take up nearly as much room, are far cheaper to buy and maintain than cars, and a heck of a lot of fun.
- justinator 10y ago
  > They are incredibly fuel efficient, Sadly, this is a myth. https://practicalfrugalliving.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/busting-the-myth-that-motorcycles-save-gas-and-money/ https://practicalfrugalliving.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/busti... http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/09/mythbusters-motorcycle-emissions.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/09/mythbuste... http://motorbikewriter.com/motorcycles-fuel-economy/ http://motorbikewriter.com/motorcycles-fuel-economy/
  - marknutter 10y ago
    None of those links refute my claim that motorcycles are fuel efficient. The first link says that large displacement bikes are "no more efficient than a prius" which is one of the most fuel efficient cars on the road. Take any new 250cc motorcycle and compare it to any new compact car and the motorcycle will have higher fuel efficiency every single time. The only article that seems to support your assertion is the mythbusters one, which doesn't refute the claim that motorcycles are more fuel efficient, but instead cites the fact that proportionally more pollution is emitted by motorcycles than by cars which is a completely separate issue altogether. That would be easily solved by stricter pollution control standards on bikes which would absolutely happen if more people started riding. The article then goes onto admit: "Despite the MythBusters' findings, emissions are only part of the story of a vehicle's true greenness. According to the Motorcycle Industry Council, motorcycle manufacturing requires thousands fewer pounds of raw materials than automobiles. They require less fossil fuel, so they require less energy to pull that fossil fuel out of the ground. They use fewer chemicals and oils than cars. And motorcycles produced today are 90% cleaner in California than they were 30 years ago." So I stand by my original statement. Did you even read the articles, or did you just whip off a quick google search and link the first three articles that seemed to support your claim?

89 points by antongribok 10y ago

The true revolution has hit public consciousness yet and that is the rise of electric bicycles. I own one and nearly every time I ride it cross town I think again that it's nearly the perfect form of human transportation. It is said that pedal bicycles are the most efficient form of human transportation. With a motor and a lithium ion battery that charges up at a rate of 150W for 3 hours and then delivers 12-15 miles of transport at 20 mph, depending on much pedaling is done to assist uphill, and I imagine that you only increase that efficiency. Electric bikes are allowed to use the bike lanes in California, while fossil fuel powered motors are not, so bikes can take routes that beat all the car and truck traffic. I don't break a sweat riding an electric bike so I don't need to take a shower when arriving at work. Take the optimistic tone of this article and add electricity and you really have a revolution.

artursapek 10y ago
Are electric bicycles desirable mainly because of lower physical effort, or higher top speed? I am an avid cyclist in NYC and I don't think I would be comfortable going any faster than my current top speed. And I really enjoy the exercise. So why would I choose an electric bicycle over my traditional one?
- kurttheviking 10y ago
  I live in SF and feel a similar way; cycling is dangerous enough at my relatively slow speed and offers exercise built into my every day routine.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  The one nice use case is for people discouraged by the distance of their commute (due to their fitness) or people discouraged by the one or two hills on their likely commute route. The electric assistance can push these folks over the hump.
  - cfallin 10y ago
    Anecdotally, I hear hills cited pretty often as a reason not to bike-commute. I live in Pittsburgh and the city is taking biking more and more seriously, but there's only so much one can do about topography. An electric boost could make a big difference for some. (Then again, if you live on the hill and work in the valley, the morning commute is pretty fun!)
- criddell 10y ago
  To extend your range? But the ultimate answer is maybe you wouldn't choose an electric bicycle. That's ok.
- Frondo 10y ago
  In my experience (as someone who cycles 50-75 miles a week) people go for the electric bikes for less exertion. Probably 3-4 times a week people on e-bikes pass me on hills, zooming along. They always seem to be heavier-set than your typical bike commuter, so if the motor's getting them out on the road and getting some exercise and fitness in, I think that is just fantastic. Anything to get people out of their cars! Maybe they'll even upgrade to a real bike some day :)
  - ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
    Not everyone is able bodied and has nice showers at work to change in.
    - Frondo 10y ago
      Happily, most people are able-bodied, and for those for whom a regular bike will never be an option, there remain cars, buses, light rail, electric bikes, and so on and so on. As for showering, I think that will probably start to matter less as time goes on. In the last few years, in the Pacific NW, I've noticed it's become somewhat acceptable to show up to meetings a bit sweaty, if you've just gotten off your bike. At least, among the business meetings I attend, of course.
      - Locke1689 10y ago
        The Pacific Northwest is badly non-representative of most of America, especially the east coast.
        Frondo 10y ago
        Well, let me ask you--what is more likely to change in the next 10-15 years? Think we'll go back to higher standards of cleanliness in the Pacific Northwest, or think standards will relax on the east coast? Cause I assure you, things won't just stay the way they are. It's an honest question, really, I don't know! (though I know what I'd prefer!) What do you think?
      - 10y ago
- yodsanklai 10y ago
  > Are electric bicycles desirable mainly because of lower physical effort, or higher top speed? I don't have one myself, but I know that in Europe, they can't go over 25km/h (higher than that, they're not considered as bicycles anymore) so the interest is to lower physical effort. > So why would I choose an electric bicycle over my traditional one? Not everybody enjoy exercising on their way to work, but even if they do, with electric assistance, they can cycle on longer/hillier commutes than what would be possible/convenient with a regular bike.
  - holri 10y ago
    Yes but the downside is worser handling, more weight, added complexity, added price and maintenance. Not worth in my case (I tried it)
    - bdwalter 10y ago
      Many of the folks considering e-bikes here are not generally comparing them to traditional bikes, but rather with cars. In which case all of the negatives you cite here, become positives.
- michaelwww 10y ago
  In my case it's primarily the assistance the motor gives me up hill. I'm nearly 60 and my knees are worn out so pedaling unassisted is just too painful. There's quite a bit of ego involved among physically fit riders, riders who are into it for physical fitness I should say, but I feel they're not considering that not everyone can ride a bike without some help. And not only that, if you live in a hilly city and there are no showers at work, your coworkers might not appreciate you riding a bike to work.
  - vanderZwan 10y ago
    > I'm nearly 60 and my knees are worn out so pedaling unassisted is just too painful. Electric assistance is not uncommon in the Netherlands among the 50+ age category, and we don't even have significant hills to speak of.
- michaelwww 10y ago
  Not higher top speed. Unless you change your gear ratio's, the electric motor can't keep up with the normal top speed going down hill.
- kernelbandwidth 10y ago
  I bike to/from work (on a regular bicycle) over a few hills. I enjoy the exercise in general, but I would still like a electric bike for the summer; a sunny Texas day with 98+ Fahrenheit weather is rough.
- tirant 10y ago
  Where I live (Netherlands) they are mainly used by seniors (60+) or people covering long distances. Top speed is limited to 25KM/h, and that is more than enough to get quickly to any place on your range distance. They are also useful in cities (e.g. Madrid) where hills maybe problematic for normal bikes.
- zardo 10y ago
  The higher speed uphills is appealing to me. If I could climb at 20mph it would shave a lot of time off of my commute, it would probably be as fast as driving most days. The other appealing thing would be hailing a trailer for groceries and still being able to make it up the steepest hills.
  - jchrisa 10y ago
    I have an E assist cargo bike and it's average speed is close to its top speed (20 mph). It's not that it's faster, it's that I'm not going slow very often. It also makes me happy to stop at stop signs. I rode a Stromer for a while it's best feature was a top speed that could easily exceed the auto speed limit on local bike routes (some of those that are still 25 mph instead of 20). Taking the lane at the speed limit sends a clear message to cut through drivers.
- nojvek 10y ago
  I'd love to upgrade my bike to an electric one. A couple of things holding me back. In Seattle in rains a lot. So for those days I use alternate commute. Electric bikes are pretty expensive. I wish there was a monthly payment option like car loans.
blastrat 10y ago
most electric bikes I see are ridden dangerously to pedestrians; by NYC deliverymen (doubt I've ever seen a woman on one), swiftly and silently sneaking up to run you down on sidewalks or the wrong way on one way streets. I would vote hard in favor of limiting speed and or requiring them to make artificial noise, unless we could get some other type of pervasive and privacy intrusive monitoring of riders' behavior. I sometimes ride my pedal bike the wrong way, and sometimes on sidewalks (two avenue blocks out of your way in NYC to get around the block is quite a long distance) but I always do it "respectfully": slowly and yielding the right of way. Till there is a system in place to effectively educate the constant churn of the class of people who deliver goods, I am soooo anti. electic bikes are technically illegal in NYC; it's a law that is never enforced. edit, addition: the mix of cars vs pedestrians works as well as it traditionally has worked and I and many other people don't have a problem with it; due to various types of complexity theory, adding bikes to the mix does not work as well, it particularly degrades the pedestrian experience, and is quite dangerous for bikers. I find electric bikes even more destabilizing and most objectionable, because they are faster and quieter, and I think because they are favored by a statistical sample that skews toward more selfish/self-interested. Why is it so hard for discussion groups to accept that somebody has an opinion with muddying it up? What I said originally should not require so much refinement for people to grasp that it's my one little opinion and it doesn't threaten your worldview more than your worldview needs to be shaken up.
- andrewliebchen 10y ago
  Cars are by far the most dangerous things to pedestrians. If electric bikes get people out of their cars, pedestrians will be better off on balance. Rather than banning electric bikes, NYC could to better to build separate infrastructure for bikes.
  - ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
    That has almost nothing to do with the post you responded to. Electric bikes are faster than normal bikes, and people treat them as mini mopeds rather than normal bikes (and there's already a problem with bicycle/pedestrian collisions).
tonyedgecombe 10y ago
I've just ordered a kit for one of my bikes, I'm hoping it will allow me to replace more car journeys.
habosa 10y ago
I don't have an e-bike but I agree completely. The only downside to my bike is that I can't really go anywhere in nice clothes because I'm likely to break a sweat. An e-bike would be a true all-purpose city vehicle.
Theodores 10y ago
It is incredibly difficult to sell electric bikes in a normal bike shop, for every one sold there are hundreds or maybe even thousands of regular bikes sold. This is a pity as electric bikes can be very good. Some electric bikes are a lot heavier than they need to be, you have a rear rack that contains brackets to house boxes that have more brackets on them and deep inside those boxes are some batteries held at the worst place for centre of gravity. All of this needs to be done as a system with the battery made a structural part of the frame. Then the bike as a whole can go back to being performance oriented instead of senior style. In my opinion the extra torque more than makes up for the weight when it comes to handling. Electric bikes don't feel heavy when you are riding one, it is just getting the thing up the stairs to your flat at the end of the day that is a pain. I hope some player from outside the bicycle industry - a Tesla - re-engineers the electric bicycle to make it a whole new product. As it is the electric bicycle just does not catch the public imagination.
jdavis703 10y ago
Not just electric bikes, but also electric skateboards and other electric personal mobility devices. Unlike bikes these things can be brought on public transit, and greatly reduce time spent on the last mile (or two). For example the boosted board can travel 25 MPH, which is much faster than rush hour traffic, and even at times the grade-seperated light rail in San Francisco.
patrickburke 10y ago
One ingredient is missing, some innovation to secure the bike against theft, since $1000 electric is a target.

djhworld 10y ago

I live in London (UK), cycling is fairly popular here but I'm terrified of being killed so don't bother with it. I'm wondering how the US approaches bicycle safety as a whole, it's all well and good building a cycle lane, but in some places that's not feasible so you have to merge with traffic. How do US drivers treat cyclists?

nck4222 10y ago
>How do US drivers treat cyclists? Not well in my experience. Cyclists dying from accidents is unfortunately more common than it should be. Perception is changing and trending in the right direction, but the attitude that roads are meant for cars and not cyclists is too prevalent. That being said there are a lot of cyclists who don't obey traffic laws and bike dangerously as well. It will improve in time as cycling becomes more common and more people do it.
labrador 10y ago
There is plenty of animosity between cyclists and motorists. The chief complaint of motorists is that cyclists don't follow the rules, such as stopping at stop signs, and the chief complaint of cyclists is that we have to pretend that we are invisible because motorist don't look out for us. I think this awareness, even if hostile at times, actually keeps us on our toes and makes the roads safer.
hkmurakami 10y ago
>How do US drivers treat cyclists? Pretty poorly. Anecdotally: My friend was driven off the road intentionally by a driver. I was hit from behind in the hills and had to be helicoptered to a hospital.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  Wow. The first should class as attempted murder.
alistairSH 10y ago
I'm wondering how the US approaches bicycle safety as a whole As a whole, it doesn't. Cities and states are getting a bit better about planning alternative transit in dense areas, but it's a scattershot approach an varies widely by area. There tends to be significant resistance from drivers to giving up any space to alternative transportation. And leaders can't seem to decide if they want normal bike lanes, separated bike "highways", or something else. US drivers are terrible in general and awful when it comes to cyclists. Especially in urban and suburban areas, even where bikes are common. Lots of misdirected anger. I've had things thrown at me, been yelled at, passed far too closely, etc. All that said, the nation, and urban areas in particular, seem to be moving in the right direction. It's just a slow process.

api_or_ipa 10y ago

I don't understand why so many people use their cars for every chore in the Bay Area. A decent bike commuter can do 16 mph which is plenty fast for most trips. It's also 'free' in that you burn lunch instead of fuel.

SirensOfTitan 10y ago
I would love to ride a bike around SF, but the thought of being hit by a car is sort of terrifying to me. As a result I ride the bus everywhere: it's non ideal.
- abrkn 10y ago
  I was looking into buying a bike for commuting from Mission to SoMa until I noticed how there are multiple hit and runs reported every week. Several times have I witnessed Uber/Lyft drivers (with me as a passenger) endanger bicyclists during the morning commute. How do they solve this in other cities?
  - benologist 10y ago
    Cars are starting to report collisions automatically so soon it will be very difficult to escape unnoticed, especially when they start reporting on other vehicles around them. At that point collisions, speeding, reckless driving etc accountability will be as automatic as red light cameras and people will drive responsibly all the time because how they drive will always be under so much scrutiny. http://abc7chicago.com/technology/car-auto-dials-911-to-report-accident-after-driver-allegedly-commits-hit-and-run/1109554/ http://abc7chicago.com/technology/car-auto-dials-911-to-repo...
  - Maultasche 10y ago
    The Netherlands does this very well. Car traffic is nicely separated from bicycle traffic, which is nicely separated from pedestrians. There's even an entire nationwide network of bicycle paths. I suggest using Google street view to look around. Usually, you can see a bike path off on the side of the road that's nicely separated from the cars. I don't think that Google has gotten around to taking street view pictures in all the bike-only paths in more rural areas, although I hear they've done that in some places. The Netherlands has been committed to improving bicycle use and safety since the 1950s, so they've built up a lot of infrastructure with that in mind. In fact, I hear that in any accident in the Netherlands involving a car and bicycle, the car is always at fault unless they can prove that the bicycle was being reckless. It makes cars a lot more careful, and encourages riding a bike instead of driving. From what I hear, the effect is from all this that automobile traffic in is pretty congested and slow. The Dutch government seems to be making a general policy of discouraging car driving and encouraging alternate forms of transportation, as a means to unclog the roads and reduce pollution. The Netherlands is very dense, so pollution would be very bad if all those people were driving everywhere. I'm not Dutch, but sometimes I wish I were, because I would very much like to bike to work on a regular basis. My city in California has some bike lanes, but they aren't very wide and are right next to the cars. They've been starting to build bike paths that are completely separate from roads, but we don't yet have a city-wide bike path network yet. I suspect we'll eventually get one, but it will be decades away. I'll go biking with my children on quiet residential streets or the bike paths, but there's no way I'd take them on the bike lanes on the bigger roads.

Havoc 10y ago

Just bought a bike this weekend. Great fun thanks to cycle lanes along the beach. Don't see it being a viable mode of transportation for day-to-day though. >a bike lane next to [...] church infringed on religious freedom by preventing members from parking. That's a pretty bizarre interpretation of "religious freedom".

pasbesoin 10y ago

I want three things: 1) Stay dry. 2) Not wear out my normal nor "dressy" clothes. 3) Ride safely. I can even forgo # 1 if I get to change and shower at the end. So... you want cyclists? Find out what's really keeping them off bikes, and fix it. P.S. And theft. You can just park your car and walk away from it -- mostly.

Zigurd 10y ago
Some of these things could be solved with better electronics. Like providing tagging/tracking technology that would keep thieves away, and a proximity warning that would flash a bright taillight at cars coming too close or approaching too quickly.

nashashmi 10y ago

In New York, one thing I have strongly noticed is the decrease in smog even on rush hour crowded avenues. This alone has made it drastically healthier to go outside whether it be on bike or walk. Just a few more years and we will be able to avoid long trips to the parks and do recreational walking immediately outside of our doors.

Zigurd 10y ago

There are some bright spots, like Cambridge, but there needs to be vastly better enforcement of having drivers keep a distance from cyclists. If cyclist-aware autonomous braking were required for cars, that might do it in a few years. But American drivers are angry and incompetent.

intrasight 10y ago

I've commuted by bicycle while in school in Toronto and at a couple of jobs since. But I've ceased to be interested in sharing roads with cars. The weight-scale of the two vehicle types is just too different, and I don't bounce as well as I used to. I do love biking on trails though, and welcome the additional trails being built around the nation and here in Pittsburgh.

cauterized 10y ago

If there were protected bike lanes along my commute (about 3 miles), I'd cycle to work in a heartbeat. (Well, showers at the office, preferably clean ones, would also help.) Instead, only about 25% of the trip has bike lanes at all. And they share a curb with the buses (which might be the worst arrangement possible, since cyclists and bus drivers have to keep dodging one another in and out of the lane - endangering the cyclists and slowing the buses). Instead, I walk when the weather is right. Cycling right beside cars would scare the shit out of me.

dominotw 10y ago
I had 3 of my coworkers killed in Chicago in last 2 years. One to to drunk driver, 2 to visibility issues( one was extreme downhill curve where a cyclist would suddenly appear out of nowhere. Other was a truck making a left turn between two cars, no way the truck driver could have seen the cyclist) . Only people with a deathwish would ride a bike on streets shared by other vehicles. Don't be stupid, think of your family.
- beardicus 10y ago
  > Only people with a deathwish would ride a bike on streets shared by other vehicles. I'll grant that the risk of death in an accident is probably higher on bike, but the risk of death by being sedentary should also not be ignored in the calculation. I don't have a deathwish, and I commuted 30 miles a day on a bike for years. It was great. I've never been in better shape. We have a problem with cars killing people with alarming regularity. The solution probably isn't to avoid riding bikes or being a pedestrian.
  - dominotw 10y ago
    surely there are better ways to get in shape that don't involve risking your life on daily basis.
    - gleenn 10y ago
      I think you're being pretty harsh. I don't have a death wish, I ride my bike frequently in SF because I love to ride, it's great exercise, it's by far the fastest way to get to work, and it's one less bicyclist-killing machine on the road. From a philosophical point of view, if everyone did what I did, there would be a lot of upsides for everyone. If everyone decided to ride a car, there would be many downsides.

marknutter 10y ago

I really hope that motorcycles make a comeback as well. They are incredibly fuel efficient, they don't take up nearly as much room, are far cheaper to buy and maintain than cars, and a heck of a lot of fun.

justinator 10y ago
> They are incredibly fuel efficient, Sadly, this is a myth. https://practicalfrugalliving.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/busting-the-myth-that-motorcycles-save-gas-and-money/ https://practicalfrugalliving.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/busti... http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/09/mythbusters-motorcycle-emissions.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/09/mythbuste... http://motorbikewriter.com/motorcycles-fuel-economy/ http://motorbikewriter.com/motorcycles-fuel-economy/
- marknutter 10y ago
  None of those links refute my claim that motorcycles are fuel efficient. The first link says that large displacement bikes are "no more efficient than a prius" which is one of the most fuel efficient cars on the road. Take any new 250cc motorcycle and compare it to any new compact car and the motorcycle will have higher fuel efficiency every single time. The only article that seems to support your assertion is the mythbusters one, which doesn't refute the claim that motorcycles are more fuel efficient, but instead cites the fact that proportionally more pollution is emitted by motorcycles than by cars which is a completely separate issue altogether. That would be easily solved by stricter pollution control standards on bikes which would absolutely happen if more people started riding. The article then goes onto admit: "Despite the MythBusters' findings, emissions are only part of the story of a vehicle's true greenness. According to the Motorcycle Industry Council, motorcycle manufacturing requires thousands fewer pounds of raw materials than automobiles. They require less fossil fuel, so they require less energy to pull that fossil fuel out of the ground. They use fewer chemicals and oils than cars. And motorcycles produced today are 90% cleaner in California than they were 30 years ago." So I stand by my original statement. Did you even read the articles, or did you just whip off a quick google search and link the first three articles that seemed to support your claim?