4 ms·

Owning a plot of land doesn't mean you can do anything you want with it. I can't buy a plot in the suburbs and build a skyscraper on it. Buildings require permi

Owning a plot of land doesn't mean you can do anything you want with it. I can't buy a plot in the suburbs and build a skyscraper on it. Buildings require permits, even buildings made of shipping containers.

seizethecheese 10y ago
So putting a shipping container in my yard should require a permit?
- ChuckMcM 10y ago
  "should" is perhaps the right question, however in California the answer is "does it?". I don't know if you live in California, but "permits" are the go to weapon of neighborhood activist groups to try to get what they want. Whether it is to prevent building, property use, or nuisances. My guess is that someone argued the container is a "building" (it has windows and a door after all), and every city requires that you get a permit before you put a building on your property. Whether it is a lowly garden shed or a guest house. Should neighbors be able to attack each other with the municipal code? That is a pretty deep question. Do they? Sure all the time.
- jonathankoren 10y ago
  Honestly? Maybe. Depends on how long it's there and what it's used for. It can negatively effect both my quality of life and my financial situation. You don't have a right to do that.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Sure we do. Simply driving an ICE car probably affects more the quality of life of other people than having a container sitting on a plot of land. Some negative effects are wrongful, but far from all.
    - gravypod 10y ago
      This must be a stupid question but what is an ICE car?
      - icebraining 10y ago
        Gas-powered (as opposed to electric cars).
        gravypod 10y ago
        Ah internal combustion engine. I googled and got stuff like this [0] [0] - http://image.syracuse.com/home/syr-media/width620/img/weather_impact/photo/19533188-mmmain.jpg http://image.syracuse.com/home/syr-media/width620/img/weathe...
        Hupriene 10y ago
        heh... I thought we were talking about an Immigration and Customs Enforcement car.
    - Gargoyle 10y ago
      Try driving your ICE car without a permit and the government will come down on you.
      - gravypod 10y ago
        To my knowledge there is absolutely no law on the books preventing someone from driving any automotive vehicle on private property in the united states. This was told to me by a US police officer who came in to talk to us about getting ready to drive. He said going to the mall or a football stadium on a Sunday is the perfect way to get practice. It just needed to be private property. Edit: To clarify this happened a few years ago when I was still in high school.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - jonathankoren 10y ago
- verytrivial 10y ago
  Just to be clear, you are arguing that all land, regardless of topology, existing use and zoning, and adjacent interest is equivalent, right?
  - seizethecheese 10y ago
    Not at all, clearly building into the ground or adding stilts should require permit. In the pictures it looks like the container is on flat ground.
- protomyth 10y ago
  Should is up for debate, but many places require a permit for an RV or shed, so a shipping container probably does.
- HarryHirsch 10y ago
  This particular container is attracting vandalism where it sits, arguably a quality-of-life issue extending beyond the property line. Dunno about the general case. This particular case here gives no reason to argue that permits in general are a case of government overreach.
gravypod 10y ago
Well he wasn't doing "anything he wanted to" and he definitely wasn't "building skyscrapers" on the land. He had a shipping container and it seems like someone threw a party on the land. There are millions of things the government could go after him for but they didn't. They didn't go after permits, or safety codes, or anything. They cited him for "abandoned or vacant building open to the public" which is complete BS. If they went after him for building permits (which do not apply here) or anything else I'd agree that is fine. That is not what happened. What they have done is essentially went after him for a charge of "I don't like what you have that here, it looks ugly"
- jonathankoren 10y ago
  So putting an unsecured (both to random individuals and to the hillside) container wasn't what he wanted to do? If not, he should totally sue someone, because if I ordered a pizza and an empty shipping container with windows cut out on the sides was delivered instead, I'd be mad. Also, having an vacant building open to the public is a safety code violation. Why do you think empty building have locked doors and fences around them?
  - tedks 10y ago
    How is this different than a gazebo? If he had built a gazebo or similar structure on the land, would the neighbors have anything to say about it (except maybe "make sure the homeless can't be comfortable in it")?
    - jonathankoren 10y ago
      Well it wouldn't be as much of an eye sore, and he would probably still need permits. http://dpw.lacounty.gov/general/faq/index.cfm?9185=9185&Action=getAnswers&FaqID=JCFNOzxSUCAgCg%3D%3D&Keywords=1 http://dpw.lacounty.gov/general/faq/index.cfm?9185=9185&Acti...
- maldeh 10y ago
  He did go and call it an experiment in sustainable living, implying the intent was for it to be a dwelling. I don't think it's unreasonable for some permit requisites to apply to it, like being a rust hazard or a danger to neighbors during an earthquake.
Overtonwindow 10y ago
Actually that's the problem: With very specific exceptions to pollution, etc. you should be allowed to do with it as you please. It's yours. You bought it and now own it. Who would ever cede this right??
- internaut 10y ago
  Property rights in the US and UK have deteriorated. Look at the Tiny House movement. It's clever but it is also a symptom of something rotten. There is something wrong with a society where half a person's working life is dedicated to the establishment and maintenance of mere shelter.

seizethecheese 10y ago

So putting a shipping container in my yard should require a permit?

ChuckMcM 10y ago
"should" is perhaps the right question, however in California the answer is "does it?". I don't know if you live in California, but "permits" are the go to weapon of neighborhood activist groups to try to get what they want. Whether it is to prevent building, property use, or nuisances. My guess is that someone argued the container is a "building" (it has windows and a door after all), and every city requires that you get a permit before you put a building on your property. Whether it is a lowly garden shed or a guest house. Should neighbors be able to attack each other with the municipal code? That is a pretty deep question. Do they? Sure all the time.
jonathankoren 10y ago
Honestly? Maybe. Depends on how long it's there and what it's used for. It can negatively effect both my quality of life and my financial situation. You don't have a right to do that.
- icebraining 10y ago
  Sure we do. Simply driving an ICE car probably affects more the quality of life of other people than having a container sitting on a plot of land. Some negative effects are wrongful, but far from all.
  - gravypod 10y ago
    This must be a stupid question but what is an ICE car?
    - icebraining 10y ago
      Gas-powered (as opposed to electric cars).
      - gravypod 10y ago
        Ah internal combustion engine. I googled and got stuff like this [0] [0] - http://image.syracuse.com/home/syr-media/width620/img/weather_impact/photo/19533188-mmmain.jpg http://image.syracuse.com/home/syr-media/width620/img/weathe...
      - Hupriene 10y ago
        heh... I thought we were talking about an Immigration and Customs Enforcement car.
  - Gargoyle 10y ago
    Try driving your ICE car without a permit and the government will come down on you.
    - gravypod 10y ago
      To my knowledge there is absolutely no law on the books preventing someone from driving any automotive vehicle on private property in the united states. This was told to me by a US police officer who came in to talk to us about getting ready to drive. He said going to the mall or a football stadium on a Sunday is the perfect way to get practice. It just needed to be private property. Edit: To clarify this happened a few years ago when I was still in high school.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
verytrivial 10y ago
Just to be clear, you are arguing that all land, regardless of topology, existing use and zoning, and adjacent interest is equivalent, right?
- seizethecheese 10y ago
  Not at all, clearly building into the ground or adding stilts should require permit. In the pictures it looks like the container is on flat ground.
protomyth 10y ago
Should is up for debate, but many places require a permit for an RV or shed, so a shipping container probably does.
HarryHirsch 10y ago
This particular container is attracting vandalism where it sits, arguably a quality-of-life issue extending beyond the property line. Dunno about the general case. This particular case here gives no reason to argue that permits in general are a case of government overreach.

gravypod 10y ago

Well he wasn't doing "anything he wanted to" and he definitely wasn't "building skyscrapers" on the land. He had a shipping container and it seems like someone threw a party on the land. There are millions of things the government could go after him for but they didn't. They didn't go after permits, or safety codes, or anything. They cited him for "abandoned or vacant building open to the public" which is complete BS. If they went after him for building permits (which do not apply here) or anything else I'd agree that is fine. That is not what happened. What they have done is essentially went after him for a charge of "I don't like what you have that here, it looks ugly"

jonathankoren 10y ago
So putting an unsecured (both to random individuals and to the hillside) container wasn't what he wanted to do? If not, he should totally sue someone, because if I ordered a pizza and an empty shipping container with windows cut out on the sides was delivered instead, I'd be mad. Also, having an vacant building open to the public is a safety code violation. Why do you think empty building have locked doors and fences around them?
- tedks 10y ago
  How is this different than a gazebo? If he had built a gazebo or similar structure on the land, would the neighbors have anything to say about it (except maybe "make sure the homeless can't be comfortable in it")?
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
    Well it wouldn't be as much of an eye sore, and he would probably still need permits. http://dpw.lacounty.gov/general/faq/index.cfm?9185=9185&Action=getAnswers&FaqID=JCFNOzxSUCAgCg%3D%3D&Keywords=1 http://dpw.lacounty.gov/general/faq/index.cfm?9185=9185&Acti...
maldeh 10y ago
He did go and call it an experiment in sustainable living, implying the intent was for it to be a dwelling. I don't think it's unreasonable for some permit requisites to apply to it, like being a rust hazard or a danger to neighbors during an earthquake.

Overtonwindow 10y ago

Actually that's the problem: With very specific exceptions to pollution, etc. you should be allowed to do with it as you please. It's yours. You bought it and now own it. Who would ever cede this right??

internaut 10y ago
Property rights in the US and UK have deteriorated. Look at the Tiny House movement. It's clever but it is also a symptom of something rotten. There is something wrong with a society where half a person's working life is dedicated to the establishment and maintenance of mere shelter.