4 ms·

I don't think it's a binary thing where you are either playing totally fairly or completely unethically. Most of the businesses have to make tough decisions to

by gedrap 10y ago

I don't think it's a binary thing where you are either playing totally fairly or completely unethically. Most of the businesses have to make tough decisions to survive, not all of them are fair (to users, employees, etc). However, the difference is in attitude about such decisions and frequency of them. >> The sort of person who feels guilty for making a good profit is at a disadvantage to the person who feels delight at taking as much money as possible. Making as much money as possible is just a goal that some people set and do everything possible to achieve that. It's no different than any other goal. You don't need to absolutely maximize the monetary output of your life in order to be happy.

monk_e_boy 10y ago
>> ou don't need to absolutely maximize the monetary output of your life in order to be happy. For me personally I totally agree. I have switched careers and taken a big cut in wages to give me more time with my family. I have to assume that a middle of the ground company exists, but again, in my experience I have not worked for one. Some have been cottage industries happy clappy the world is kind and karma is real and others who think the customer is a chump and we can screw them out of as much money as possible.
- joshyeager 10y ago
  Companies like that definitely exist. I work for one: we make a great product, work hard to make our customers successful, and charge enough to make our business successful as well. I don't know of a universal rule for finding companies like that. But you can definitely recognize them when you see them in action.
ci5er 10y ago
I'm curious about why you think that earning money professionally, or as a business, is a problem. Say that I with a couple of friends could, in 9 months or so, develop a system that would, for JC Penneys (say), save $10M or raise their sales by 1% (I think they are between $10B~$15B in annual revenue, so this would be around $100M+ revenue and at 5% margin (for example) worth about $5M to their bottom line...) I think it would be reasonable to charge them $1M+ for this work. One might argue (they would argue!) that 3 guys for 9 months should NOT be $1M+ -- that we were being greedy. But, I would argue that we are creating significant positive value after our fees. Would you agree with their reasoning and disagree with mine? If so, that's fine - but I am curious as to why.
- HillRat 10y ago
  I don't think you're interpreting the parent post properly -- he or she is simply saying that, for some people, maximizing income is a primary goal; for others, income is just a tool for achieving other goals (family, hobbies, travel, etc). Nothing wrong with either one as such. Also, you're not charging enough for your hypothetical services. What you really want to do is discount your pricing to, say, $500K but collect on revenue as part of a fee-at-risk deal, assuming you're that hypothetically confident of your hypothetical value-add.
  - gedrap 10y ago
    Yes, this. Some people will look for careers in industries that are known to pay more (e.g. finance), even though they don't like or even hate the industry. For others, they just prefer a job that they actually enjoy and just enough income to support their life style and have a good level of financial safety. None of them is unethical or wrong, just different personal preferences.
    - ci5er 10y ago
      That makes sense. Parent was correct - I was not reading you correctly. Thanks.
  - ci5er 10y ago
    Thank you. Apparently you are right - I was not reading parent correctly. To your 2nd point, I constructed my hypothetical badly, but regardless, I've learned that I (personally) don't like to depend on the client for accurate monthly or quarterly reports, and then have to do some anti "Hollywood accounting" measures on it, or deal with the inevitable re-org's required re-calculation. I completely understand what you are saying, but if possible, I like to make sure that the client is getting somewhere in the ballpark of at least 10:1 (pro forma, reviewed and agreed to by client) and call it a day. If I had a slightly different personality, your way can be a very (!) good way.

by gedrap 10y ago

monk_e_boy 10y ago

>> ou don't need to absolutely maximize the monetary output of your life in order to be happy. For me personally I totally agree. I have switched careers and taken a big cut in wages to give me more time with my family. I have to assume that a middle of the ground company exists, but again, in my experience I have not worked for one. Some have been cottage industries happy clappy the world is kind and karma is real and others who think the customer is a chump and we can screw them out of as much money as possible.

joshyeager 10y ago
Companies like that definitely exist. I work for one: we make a great product, work hard to make our customers successful, and charge enough to make our business successful as well. I don't know of a universal rule for finding companies like that. But you can definitely recognize them when you see them in action.

ci5er 10y ago

I'm curious about why you think that earning money professionally, or as a business, is a problem. Say that I with a couple of friends could, in 9 months or so, develop a system that would, for JC Penneys (say), save $10M or raise their sales by 1% (I think they are between $10B~$15B in annual revenue, so this would be around $100M+ revenue and at 5% margin (for example) worth about $5M to their bottom line...) I think it would be reasonable to charge them $1M+ for this work. One might argue (they would argue!) that 3 guys for 9 months should NOT be $1M+ -- that we were being greedy. But, I would argue that we are creating significant positive value after our fees. Would you agree with their reasoning and disagree with mine? If so, that's fine - but I am curious as to why.

HillRat 10y ago
I don't think you're interpreting the parent post properly -- he or she is simply saying that, for some people, maximizing income is a primary goal; for others, income is just a tool for achieving other goals (family, hobbies, travel, etc). Nothing wrong with either one as such. Also, you're not charging enough for your hypothetical services. What you really want to do is discount your pricing to, say, $500K but collect on revenue as part of a fee-at-risk deal, assuming you're that hypothetically confident of your hypothetical value-add.
- gedrap 10y ago
  Yes, this. Some people will look for careers in industries that are known to pay more (e.g. finance), even though they don't like or even hate the industry. For others, they just prefer a job that they actually enjoy and just enough income to support their life style and have a good level of financial safety. None of them is unethical or wrong, just different personal preferences.
  - ci5er 10y ago
    That makes sense. Parent was correct - I was not reading you correctly. Thanks.
- ci5er 10y ago
  Thank you. Apparently you are right - I was not reading parent correctly. To your 2nd point, I constructed my hypothetical badly, but regardless, I've learned that I (personally) don't like to depend on the client for accurate monthly or quarterly reports, and then have to do some anti "Hollywood accounting" measures on it, or deal with the inevitable re-org's required re-calculation. I completely understand what you are saying, but if possible, I like to make sure that the client is getting somewhere in the ballpark of at least 10:1 (pro forma, reviewed and agreed to by client) and call it a day. If I had a slightly different personality, your way can be a very (!) good way.