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'Religion' is etymologically related to connotations of joining and binding. This implies some sort of separation, and a process of joining. Similarly, 'yoga'

by nsomaru 10y ago

'Religion' is etymologically related to connotations of joining and binding. This implies some sort of separation, and a process of joining. Similarly, 'yoga' (by which I do not mean physical exercise) is etymologically related to connotations of union (from 'yuj'). Again, the implication is separation and a process of union. If you take a serious look at your own experience (the evidence), you will arrive at a similar conclusion to Descartes; roughly, that the evidence of one's senses cannot be taken at face value because they provide similar evidences in a dream which is understood to be entirely illusory upon waking up. Alas, most of 'Western' (I do apologise in advance to anyone who thinks I'm being too liberal with that word) thought takes the waking state to be absolute, and dream and deep sleep to be subsets of this state. This is an assumption but it runs so deep that it will be difficult for most to see what I'm trying to point out. First consider that the three states of consciousness experienced (waking, dream and deep sleep) are completely different modes; that is, the dreamer can neither conceive the existence of a waking world which is more 'real' than his current experience, nor will he readily admit that his experience is illusory...until he wakes up and becomes the waker. At this point the illusory nature of the dream cannot be doubted. The money in the dream cannot service debts of the waking state. Consider, then, that questions as to the origin of the world, the purpose of existence and the nature of God may arise only during dream and waking, because in these states there exists thought and thus by implication a mind -- the conclusion is then drawn that in the absence of a mind, there is also absence of a world (as in deep sleep). Thus one may conclude that the 3 states of waking, dream and deep sleep have relative and not absolute reality. It will, however, be noticed that there is a substratum integrating these varying experiences and arrogating them. These are all evidences available to any human being and perhaps could lead one to believe that there might be something to religion after all, beyond the paraphernalia of clothing, places of worship and specific texts. "The kingdom of heaven is within you; he that findeth his Self shall know it"

nitrogen 10y ago
As counterevidence I would submit lucid dreaming, various half-awake/half-asleep states, and, the strongest evidence of all that sleep is a behavior of a physical brain and not an entrance to another world, the study of neuroscience.
- nsomaru 10y ago
  Your views are valid if you're considering the other states of consciousness as subsets of the waking state. It's hard to extricate oneself from this thought pattern. On the contrary, it is possible to dream that one is engaging in neuroscience, even hook up (dream) friends and family to some kind of brain monitor and prove that they are themselves asleep/dreaming. That doesn't change the fact that the entire dream is illusory. One can never see one's own brain while dreaming or sleeping, it is upon waking that we rely on the testimony of others and thus, again, on the existence of a mind. In this way, thought precedes the brain, whose very appearance occurs in the medium of thought. This is inverted as compared to the Western view that brains produce thoughts. Thoughts produce brains! I'm not sure (and happy to be corrected) if lucid dreaming is well defined enough that we can say it is awareness of the illusory nature of the dream, while dreaming. Dream money, earned lucidly or not, cannot service debts of the waking state. And vice versa! Hence different modes of experience.

by nsomaru 10y ago

nitrogen 10y ago

As counterevidence I would submit lucid dreaming, various half-awake/half-asleep states, and, the strongest evidence of all that sleep is a behavior of a physical brain and not an entrance to another world, the study of neuroscience.

nsomaru 10y ago
Your views are valid if you're considering the other states of consciousness as subsets of the waking state. It's hard to extricate oneself from this thought pattern. On the contrary, it is possible to dream that one is engaging in neuroscience, even hook up (dream) friends and family to some kind of brain monitor and prove that they are themselves asleep/dreaming. That doesn't change the fact that the entire dream is illusory. One can never see one's own brain while dreaming or sleeping, it is upon waking that we rely on the testimony of others and thus, again, on the existence of a mind. In this way, thought precedes the brain, whose very appearance occurs in the medium of thought. This is inverted as compared to the Western view that brains produce thoughts. Thoughts produce brains! I'm not sure (and happy to be corrected) if lucid dreaming is well defined enough that we can say it is awareness of the illusory nature of the dream, while dreaming. Dream money, earned lucidly or not, cannot service debts of the waking state. And vice versa! Hence different modes of experience.