4 ms·

> Most of those things listed are neither, rather they are pragmatic and intended to improve readability. The road to damnation is paved with good intentions.

> Most of those things listed are neither, rather they are pragmatic and intended to improve readability. The road to damnation is paved with good intentions. In C++, (which I use a lot for many practical reasons), separately every single feature solves or improves something, but together the improvements could have been made more consistently at a lesser cost in language elegance.

swannodette 17y ago
separately every single feature solves or improves something, but together the improvements could have been made more consistently at a lesser cost in language elegance. The problem with C++ is that those "improvements" are grafted onto the language. You can't do a damn thing about it. In Clojure half these "mini-languages" are just macros. You don't have to use any of it. If you see a better way to do things build your own macros from the primitive forms. Good luck fixing C++ :D
- deleted 17y ago
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- nearestneighbor 17y ago
  > The problem with C++ is that those "improvements" are grafted onto the language. You can't do a damn thing about it. You don't have to use the features you don't like. Its main design principle is "you don't pay for what you don't use". The problem with C++ is that too many people who don't know it, talk about it :-P
brehaut 17y ago
Your point highlights what i think is one of the biggest features of clojure: it has been assembled according to a philosophy / design criteria such that each feature exists as part of the whole. The features that have been omitted from clojure are as important as the features that have made it in. It has been pointed out that much of what is in clojure is not new, its the careful and pragmatic orchestration of good ideas taken from across the field of computer science that makes it interesting. The major point of conflict is whether you agree with the philosophy.
swannodette 17y ago
I do know C++. I've used it do OpenGL and basic augmented reality stuff, I've used it in conjunction with Objective-C. And it was one of my first languages. I haven't worked with it in a very long time (4+ years) and I never did very large projects (more than 10,000 LOC) with it. For that I am glad.

swannodette 17y ago

separately every single feature solves or improves something, but together the improvements could have been made more consistently at a lesser cost in language elegance. The problem with C++ is that those "improvements" are grafted onto the language. You can't do a damn thing about it. In Clojure half these "mini-languages" are just macros. You don't have to use any of it. If you see a better way to do things build your own macros from the primitive forms. Good luck fixing C++ :D

deleted 17y ago
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nearestneighbor 17y ago
> The problem with C++ is that those "improvements" are grafted onto the language. You can't do a damn thing about it. You don't have to use the features you don't like. Its main design principle is "you don't pay for what you don't use". The problem with C++ is that too many people who don't know it, talk about it :-P

brehaut 17y ago

Your point highlights what i think is one of the biggest features of clojure: it has been assembled according to a philosophy / design criteria such that each feature exists as part of the whole. The features that have been omitted from clojure are as important as the features that have made it in. It has been pointed out that much of what is in clojure is not new, its the careful and pragmatic orchestration of good ideas taken from across the field of computer science that makes it interesting. The major point of conflict is whether you agree with the philosophy.

swannodette 17y ago

I do know C++. I've used it do OpenGL and basic augmented reality stuff, I've used it in conjunction with Objective-C. And it was one of my first languages. I haven't worked with it in a very long time (4+ years) and I never did very large projects (more than 10,000 LOC) with it. For that I am glad.