4 ms·

See my other replies below.

by phonon 10y ago

tptacek 10y ago
I did. They aren't responsive to this comment. If you disagree, can you explain how?
- phonon 10y ago
  Even if this would be considered a commercial license (and not a commercial lease) RPAPL § 853 (treble damages for unlawful eviction) and RPAPL § 713 (7) (10 day eviction notice required for a commercial license) apply. https://commercialobserver.com/2013/11/the-dirt-dictionary-l-is-for-lease-or-maybe-its-a-license/ https://commercialobserver.com/2013/11/the-dirt-dictionary-l... https://www.blumberglegalforms.com/html/05508103080008AdamL.pdf https://www.blumberglegalforms.com/html/05508103080008AdamL....
  - tptacek 10y ago
    First, the hot-desk WeWork subscription contract is worded to avoid "exclusive use". If that's what they --- like most WeWork users --- had, it's unlikely they had a lease at all. Second, even if they did have a lease, statutory notice and penalties are nowhere nearly as strict as they are for residential lockouts (where statutory civil punitive damages untethered to actual damage do in fact apply). In any case, if they want to claim damages, they're going to have to (a) document actual damages from WeWork's action and then (b) take it to court and wait a year or two to have a chance at recovering, in what will, due to their own actions, be a complicated case. Nothing is going to happen here. Everyone is simply going to move on.
    - phonon 10y ago
      I mostly agree. If it was a hot-desk user, that would almost certainly be construed as a license by a court. When I was at WeWork, the vast majority were glass-walled permanent offices. Other locations could differ I suppose. But, as I showed above, even commercial licensors have protections too...with notice needed and treble damages applying. Punitive damages could apply as well. In the end though, kicking some people with laptops (probably) out of their offices would, I would guess, result in a 5-figure award if it went to court...which would make it a somewhat marginal case (even if they were awarded legal costs as well). Small claims court would probably be a guaranteed $5,000 though. Does WeWork care about a few thousand dollars vs. stanching the flow of someone spreading bad PR about them? Probably not. OTOH, now people know WeWork management have no compunction in telling you to GTFO ASAP (legal or not), and for the more risk averse larger tenants, that might be quite a concern...particularly given how much more WeWork charges per square foot (2x++), compared to just an ordinary 1 year sublet in the same area. So in the end, I would still not do what they did. I would have a) Sent them a legal nastygram b) booted them off the internal network c) given them 10 days notice but I'm the law abiding type :-)

See my other replies below.

by phonon 10y ago

See my other replies below.

tptacek 10y ago

I did. They aren't responsive to this comment. If you disagree, can you explain how?

phonon 10y ago
Even if this would be considered a commercial license (and not a commercial lease) RPAPL § 853 (treble damages for unlawful eviction) and RPAPL § 713 (7) (10 day eviction notice required for a commercial license) apply. https://commercialobserver.com/2013/11/the-dirt-dictionary-l-is-for-lease-or-maybe-its-a-license/ https://commercialobserver.com/2013/11/the-dirt-dictionary-l... https://www.blumberglegalforms.com/html/05508103080008AdamL.pdf https://www.blumberglegalforms.com/html/05508103080008AdamL....
- tptacek 10y ago
  First, the hot-desk WeWork subscription contract is worded to avoid "exclusive use". If that's what they --- like most WeWork users --- had, it's unlikely they had a lease at all. Second, even if they did have a lease, statutory notice and penalties are nowhere nearly as strict as they are for residential lockouts (where statutory civil punitive damages untethered to actual damage do in fact apply). In any case, if they want to claim damages, they're going to have to (a) document actual damages from WeWork's action and then (b) take it to court and wait a year or two to have a chance at recovering, in what will, due to their own actions, be a complicated case. Nothing is going to happen here. Everyone is simply going to move on.
  - phonon 10y ago
    I mostly agree. If it was a hot-desk user, that would almost certainly be construed as a license by a court. When I was at WeWork, the vast majority were glass-walled permanent offices. Other locations could differ I suppose. But, as I showed above, even commercial licensors have protections too...with notice needed and treble damages applying. Punitive damages could apply as well. In the end though, kicking some people with laptops (probably) out of their offices would, I would guess, result in a 5-figure award if it went to court...which would make it a somewhat marginal case (even if they were awarded legal costs as well). Small claims court would probably be a guaranteed $5,000 though. Does WeWork care about a few thousand dollars vs. stanching the flow of someone spreading bad PR about them? Probably not. OTOH, now people know WeWork management have no compunction in telling you to GTFO ASAP (legal or not), and for the more risk averse larger tenants, that might be quite a concern...particularly given how much more WeWork charges per square foot (2x++), compared to just an ordinary 1 year sublet in the same area. So in the end, I would still not do what they did. I would have a) Sent them a legal nastygram b) booted them off the internal network c) given them 10 days notice but I'm the law abiding type :-)