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Some people need to hear that it's time to quit, because they're invested in something that's a dead end. Just as you shouldn't throw good money after bad, the

by h34t 19y ago

Some people need to hear that it's time to quit, because they're invested in something that's a dead end. Just as you shouldn't throw good money after bad, the same can be said for your time (and your team's time). The important part isn't who said it (in this case it happened to be me), it's the simple fact that sometimes, it's good advice. This was obviously not an original idea of mine. In fact I doubt if I've said anything original at all here; every time I think I've thought of something original, I seem to find myself reading a book by someone who's already thought a couple steps ahead of me a few weeks later (luckily, that's okay -- ideas need not be original to be useful). I might have said "someone who needs to face the realities of extricating themselves out of a dead end project" instead of using the shorthand "what I've written" to avoid such confusion. I was not intending to come across as some know-it-all guru, and it is my fault if my words conveyed that impression (and they well may have). * Also note that the first half of my sentence said that the questioner was not "somebody who needs to hear what I've written." * I am assuming that you were being sarcastic with this last reply, which I felt was a safe assumption, but I can't really know, because I don't know you, and communicating via text is hell and we are prone to vastly overestimate our own comprehension of the other person's intent. My apologies if I screwed up.

edw519 19y ago
Yes, I was being sarcastic. Darn, I keep making that mistake. Just like I was not being literal when I said "never". I was just trying to emphasize that too many give up too soon with an extraordinary (and apparently inappropriate) word choice. You can never be too thin or too rich, either. Oh, never mind. (Oops, I did it again.) Good arguments all around. I think we've pretty much beaten this one to death. I give up - gotta go fix that bubble gum submarine leak.
fiaz 19y ago
h34t, Please read the second paragraph in this article: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1604891,00.html http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1604891,00.... How different would the developed world be if he didn't persist in creating his own "Gubmarine" and listened to his colleagues who told him to quit? Success is the veil of hard work, difficulty, and a whole lotta pain. It's the result of these things (and many more negative things people usually avoid enduring) that we identify as "success". Rarely do we see the torment that the successful go through in order to get where they are.
- h34t 19y ago
  What an amazing story... this is the first I've read of it. It doesn't much to do with my argument, though. Even though I haven't talked about this much here, I personally believe that persistence is one of the most important ingredients in doing anything important. But it's not a holy grail to be worshiped at all costs. You can't make a general rule called "never give up" if "giving up" means ceasing the cooperation of a team for a particular purpose. That would be a stupid rule; it would lead to all sorts of irrational results. Imagine a VC firm that decided to never give up on any of its startups, ever. That sort of policy would fly in the face of all general knowledge about how the world of startups work. Offering an anecdotal example is very problematic. What about all the other folks who were working on making blue LEDs whose, inventions had no chance of competing with Nakamura's? Because of the survivorship bias, we don't hear about them, yet they are just as important to understanding the dynamics of reality. After his invention was released, are they supposed to continue on the same path? Of course not. It doesn't mean they give up on life, or on themselves, but it does mean that they give up on a mission that they had committed themselves to for some period of time. I'd never say that a founder should listen blindly to colleagues, and certainly not to me(!), in deciding whether it's worth continuing. These are complex decisions that need to be made carefully. In short, Success requires persistence, but persistence does not imply success. Most stories of success will be stories of persistence, but not all stories of persistence will lead to success. And many stories of success will include "giving up" on previous projects/companies before finding success in a new one.
  - fiaz 19y ago
    What is your argument then? I'm afraid that you are not communicating across your argument effectively...I thought the article above was a pretty good refutation of the post to which I replied. It is an amazing story isn't it?

by h34t 19y ago

edw519 19y ago

Yes, I was being sarcastic. Darn, I keep making that mistake. Just like I was not being literal when I said "never". I was just trying to emphasize that too many give up too soon with an extraordinary (and apparently inappropriate) word choice. You can never be too thin or too rich, either. Oh, never mind. (Oops, I did it again.) Good arguments all around. I think we've pretty much beaten this one to death. I give up - gotta go fix that bubble gum submarine leak.

fiaz 19y ago

h34t, Please read the second paragraph in this article: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1604891,00.html http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1604891,00.... How different would the developed world be if he didn't persist in creating his own "Gubmarine" and listened to his colleagues who told him to quit? Success is the veil of hard work, difficulty, and a whole lotta pain. It's the result of these things (and many more negative things people usually avoid enduring) that we identify as "success". Rarely do we see the torment that the successful go through in order to get where they are.

h34t 19y ago
What an amazing story... this is the first I've read of it. It doesn't much to do with my argument, though. Even though I haven't talked about this much here, I personally believe that persistence is one of the most important ingredients in doing anything important. But it's not a holy grail to be worshiped at all costs. You can't make a general rule called "never give up" if "giving up" means ceasing the cooperation of a team for a particular purpose. That would be a stupid rule; it would lead to all sorts of irrational results. Imagine a VC firm that decided to never give up on any of its startups, ever. That sort of policy would fly in the face of all general knowledge about how the world of startups work. Offering an anecdotal example is very problematic. What about all the other folks who were working on making blue LEDs whose, inventions had no chance of competing with Nakamura's? Because of the survivorship bias, we don't hear about them, yet they are just as important to understanding the dynamics of reality. After his invention was released, are they supposed to continue on the same path? Of course not. It doesn't mean they give up on life, or on themselves, but it does mean that they give up on a mission that they had committed themselves to for some period of time. I'd never say that a founder should listen blindly to colleagues, and certainly not to me(!), in deciding whether it's worth continuing. These are complex decisions that need to be made carefully. In short, Success requires persistence, but persistence does not imply success. Most stories of success will be stories of persistence, but not all stories of persistence will lead to success. And many stories of success will include "giving up" on previous projects/companies before finding success in a new one.
- fiaz 19y ago
  What is your argument then? I'm afraid that you are not communicating across your argument effectively...I thought the article above was a pretty good refutation of the post to which I replied. It is an amazing story isn't it?