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But that's the beauty of Ember: you run one tool. `ember`. Sure it uses Babel under the hood and a CSS preprocessor, but they are not separate tools really. Bu

by orf 10y ago

But that's the beauty of Ember: you run one tool. `ember`. Sure it uses Babel under the hood and a CSS preprocessor, but they are not separate tools really. But what exactly is wrong with a CLI? I'm sorry but I really don't get your point. I mean, you kind of have to run one or more anyway if you want to do modern JS development because the JS you write isn't the JS that gets served to the browser (and for good reason). A CLI is a requirement and has been for a while now.

Touche 10y ago
> A CLI is a requirement and has been for a while now. It's really not, you can get by fine with a text editor and a web browser only. You can use regular web components (works unmodified in Chrome, there's a polyfill for other browsers) and get modularity and all of the things you need. You can add Polymer which, again, doesn't require anything but an editor and a browser.
- chriskrycho 10y ago
  Do you combine and minify your code? If so, how—presumably a command-line tool? It's totally fine to say that you'd prefer to keep your dependencies fairly minimal, but pinning that on whether you use a CLI or not seems a false dichotomy from here. The question is how much tooling and what it does for you, versus what it gives you. There is no doubt a real tradeoff there; there are costs to something like Ember CLI and there's no reason everyone should think those costs are worth embracing in every instance. But to be sure, there are upsides: being able to write ES2015, being able to pull in tests automatically, being able to run your entire test suite against the entire app without needing to write any glue to do that yourself... those things do have value, even if they're not particularly appealing to you. And all of those quite comfortably use the official specs to get that work done.
lsiebert 10y ago
That said, someone could probably code a locally hosted react app that wrapped the CLI, and also indicated/logged what commands were run, output, errors, etc. I love CLI, I live in vim and tmux as much as I can, but I think point and click interfaces are better for discovery, whereas a command line interface is better for reproducibility and therefore instructional learning.

by orf 10y ago

Touche 10y ago

> A CLI is a requirement and has been for a while now. It's really not, you can get by fine with a text editor and a web browser only. You can use regular web components (works unmodified in Chrome, there's a polyfill for other browsers) and get modularity and all of the things you need. You can add Polymer which, again, doesn't require anything but an editor and a browser.

chriskrycho 10y ago
Do you combine and minify your code? If so, how—presumably a command-line tool? It's totally fine to say that you'd prefer to keep your dependencies fairly minimal, but pinning that on whether you use a CLI or not seems a false dichotomy from here. The question is how much tooling and what it does for you, versus what it gives you. There is no doubt a real tradeoff there; there are costs to something like Ember CLI and there's no reason everyone should think those costs are worth embracing in every instance. But to be sure, there are upsides: being able to write ES2015, being able to pull in tests automatically, being able to run your entire test suite against the entire app without needing to write any glue to do that yourself... those things do have value, even if they're not particularly appealing to you. And all of those quite comfortably use the official specs to get that work done.

lsiebert 10y ago

That said, someone could probably code a locally hosted react app that wrapped the CLI, and also indicated/logged what commands were run, output, errors, etc. I love CLI, I live in vim and tmux as much as I can, but I think point and click interfaces are better for discovery, whereas a command line interface is better for reproducibility and therefore instructional learning.