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What a dumb response. The person that wrote in wasn't looking for a free replacement or a free repair---just an answer to the question of whether the laptop wa

by blahedo 17y ago

What a dumb response. The person that wrote in wasn't looking for a free replacement or a free repair---just an answer to the question of whether the laptop was fixable. The snark was unnecessary, as was the assumption that the user was just looking for a free ride. But perhaps Jobs just didn't read the original request carefully; Bob Lefsetz's ranty response doesn't have that excuse. He's using the user's question to rant about something completely unrelated. Lame.

zackattack 17y ago
If you read the original email, which is two nodes back in the list, it's clear that the reader is voicing frustration with the possibility of having to spend $300 with no guarantee of fixity. It's not an easy pill to swallow, psychologically. If the customer had AppleCare, hopefully the diagnosis would have been free. But he didn't. In Blackjack insurance is a sucker's bet but in the game of life, perhaps it isn't. How's that for a platitude. p.s. taking suggestions for a single word substitute for "fixity"
- jongraehl 17y ago
  repair
- pyre 17y ago
  See http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1214566 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1214566 The customer appears to have had AppleCare, but AppleCare doesn't cover damage that is your fault.
  - zackattack 17y ago
    You'd hope a simple diagnosis would be covered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=409Pjtq7jzY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=409Pjtq7jzY
    - pyre 17y ago
      I agree that a diagnosis should be covered, but the way I read that email it looks like it wasn't.
      - zackattack 17y ago
        Ya, so dude flipped out, and hoped for pity. It's a gambit I myself have employed in the past.. to little success.
- dlib 17y ago
  Since Apple is most likely to make money off AppleCare, it means that it's probably not worth it. If there's a 50% chance your MacBook breaks and it's worth $1000 you're worse off when you insure it if your insurance premium is above $500. The AppleCare premium includes their profit and is thus above the expected value. Do note, this only applies to goods where you have the means to buy a replacement. If you can't afford a new MacBook (and need one to make a living), insure it. Health care as well, the odds of contracting a serious illness in your twenties are pretty slim but you better insure against it because you can't pay for it if you do get ill. In a similar fashion governments don't need to insure their buildings against fires. They have the means to rebuild, insuring would cost more.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
ugh 17y ago
Full text of the email Jobs was responding to: “I wanted to write and express my concern about some recent problems that I have had with Apple Care. This week, my MacBook Pro unfortunately sustained water damage. I understand this is entirely my fault but it is still something I would like to get fixed. After three or four calls I was finally able to get a straight answer. While I was happy to get a straight answer, I was not at all happy with the answer. It is very worrisome to me that the only way to get my computer fixed is to pay almost $300.00 up front with no guarantee that this will fix the problem. I was horrified to learn that their is no system to assess the problem and bill once all damage is known. I am reluctant to put money into a problem that could easily grow. I have had three Apple computers in a row. I love using them but I am not sure if my replacement will be one. I feel powerless in the situation and the whole experience has turned me off of the Apple company.” (That’s not the kind of mail I would write to Jobs address. I would talk it over with the support hotline. Apple is usually tolerant and there is very often at least some wiggle room. It’s also not as if you would have to let Apple do the repairing, right?)
- pyre 17y ago
  > That’s not the kind of mail I would write to Jobs address. Someone was upset with what seems to be a company policy, so they write a letter to the CEO. Happens all the time. (Or is the RDF supposed to deflect these?) > It’s also not as if you would have to let Apple do the repairing, right? Huh?
  - ugh 17y ago
    Apple employees are not the only people allowed to touch Apple hardware. Others can and will repair that stuff, too, and they won’t charge quite so much for mere labor costs (maybe 50 € or less for a check). At least that’s the case here in Germany. And what possible benefit could you expect from writing such a email to someone as self-rightous as Steve Jobs? Yada yada Symbolism yada yada – but that energy could also be used doing something a little more productive like convincing someone on the Apple hotline or finding someone else who will repair your stuff. Apple’s repairs are expensive – and that’s just how it is. Get Apple Care, don’t drop your device and don’t spill water on it or just don’t buy any Apple hardware at all. Problem solved.
wvenable 17y ago
A friend of mine worked at a general electronics repair business and he said 90% of the work is in the diagnosis. Customers would bring in their equipment, he would crack it open an examine, and a lot of customers either didn't like the repair price or simply didn't come back. Since he'd done most of the work just finding out what was wrong with it, he almost always fixed it. So they ended up with a lot of extra electronics to sell. How much work goes into determining whether the laptop is fixable? Probably enough to warrant a charge.
- kls 17y ago
  Right which is why a policy of giving a range with the maximum amount to fix it is a better policy. It takes five minutes to take a look at a machine and say oh man that looks like it could be anywhere from $400 to 2K (replace every part).
  - wvenable 17y ago
    5 minutes? It probably takes 10x that just to get it into the hands of someone who can make that assessment.

by blahedo 17y ago

zackattack 17y ago

If you read the original email, which is two nodes back in the list, it's clear that the reader is voicing frustration with the possibility of having to spend $300 with no guarantee of fixity. It's not an easy pill to swallow, psychologically. If the customer had AppleCare, hopefully the diagnosis would have been free. But he didn't. In Blackjack insurance is a sucker's bet but in the game of life, perhaps it isn't. How's that for a platitude. p.s. taking suggestions for a single word substitute for "fixity"

jongraehl 17y ago
repair
pyre 17y ago
See http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1214566 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1214566 The customer appears to have had AppleCare, but AppleCare doesn't cover damage that is your fault.
- zackattack 17y ago
  You'd hope a simple diagnosis would be covered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=409Pjtq7jzY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=409Pjtq7jzY
  - pyre 17y ago
    I agree that a diagnosis should be covered, but the way I read that email it looks like it wasn't.
    - zackattack 17y ago
      Ya, so dude flipped out, and hoped for pity. It's a gambit I myself have employed in the past.. to little success.
dlib 17y ago
Since Apple is most likely to make money off AppleCare, it means that it's probably not worth it. If there's a 50% chance your MacBook breaks and it's worth $1000 you're worse off when you insure it if your insurance premium is above $500. The AppleCare premium includes their profit and is thus above the expected value. Do note, this only applies to goods where you have the means to buy a replacement. If you can't afford a new MacBook (and need one to make a living), insure it. Health care as well, the odds of contracting a serious illness in your twenties are pretty slim but you better insure against it because you can't pay for it if you do get ill. In a similar fashion governments don't need to insure their buildings against fires. They have the means to rebuild, insuring would cost more.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

ugh 17y ago

Full text of the email Jobs was responding to: “I wanted to write and express my concern about some recent problems that I have had with Apple Care. This week, my MacBook Pro unfortunately sustained water damage. I understand this is entirely my fault but it is still something I would like to get fixed. After three or four calls I was finally able to get a straight answer. While I was happy to get a straight answer, I was not at all happy with the answer. It is very worrisome to me that the only way to get my computer fixed is to pay almost $300.00 up front with no guarantee that this will fix the problem. I was horrified to learn that their is no system to assess the problem and bill once all damage is known. I am reluctant to put money into a problem that could easily grow. I have had three Apple computers in a row. I love using them but I am not sure if my replacement will be one. I feel powerless in the situation and the whole experience has turned me off of the Apple company.” (That’s not the kind of mail I would write to Jobs address. I would talk it over with the support hotline. Apple is usually tolerant and there is very often at least some wiggle room. It’s also not as if you would have to let Apple do the repairing, right?)

pyre 17y ago
> That’s not the kind of mail I would write to Jobs address. Someone was upset with what seems to be a company policy, so they write a letter to the CEO. Happens all the time. (Or is the RDF supposed to deflect these?) > It’s also not as if you would have to let Apple do the repairing, right? Huh?
- ugh 17y ago
  Apple employees are not the only people allowed to touch Apple hardware. Others can and will repair that stuff, too, and they won’t charge quite so much for mere labor costs (maybe 50 € or less for a check). At least that’s the case here in Germany. And what possible benefit could you expect from writing such a email to someone as self-rightous as Steve Jobs? Yada yada Symbolism yada yada – but that energy could also be used doing something a little more productive like convincing someone on the Apple hotline or finding someone else who will repair your stuff. Apple’s repairs are expensive – and that’s just how it is. Get Apple Care, don’t drop your device and don’t spill water on it or just don’t buy any Apple hardware at all. Problem solved.

wvenable 17y ago

A friend of mine worked at a general electronics repair business and he said 90% of the work is in the diagnosis. Customers would bring in their equipment, he would crack it open an examine, and a lot of customers either didn't like the repair price or simply didn't come back. Since he'd done most of the work just finding out what was wrong with it, he almost always fixed it. So they ended up with a lot of extra electronics to sell. How much work goes into determining whether the laptop is fixable? Probably enough to warrant a charge.

kls 17y ago
Right which is why a policy of giving a range with the maximum amount to fix it is a better policy. It takes five minutes to take a look at a machine and say oh man that looks like it could be anywhere from $400 to 2K (replace every part).
- wvenable 17y ago
  5 minutes? It probably takes 10x that just to get it into the hands of someone who can make that assessment.