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Why does the status quo matter? Would a 51% remain vote be more valid than a 55% leave vote, simply based on whether or not it preserves the status quo?

by rfrank 10y ago

dragonwriter 10y ago
Status quo matters in this narrow context of discussing the validity of reversed headlines and responses to them because "Remain may never happen" would be nonsense with a reversed result; remain is what happens until some action by the government changes it, so if remain won, remain would immediately be happening, just as it was happening before the referendum.
- rfrank 10y ago
  Simple questions like "would I find this argument acceptable if the outcomes were reversed" are important to consider, especially for a subject like ignoring/reversing the outcomes of democratic elections. If that sort of semantic point makes that impossible to realize, then I don't really know what to tell you.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > Simple questions like "would I find this argument acceptable if the outcomes were reversed" are important to consider They can often be useful to consider, certainly, where they make sense. > If that sort of semantic point makes that impossible to realize, then I don't really know what to tell you. You could just recognize that sometimes the trick of reversing values doesn't result in a parallel (or even coherent) scenario to consider, because not every situation is symmetric in the way required for that to be a meaningful thing to consider.
    - rfrank 10y ago
      If the remain vote had prevailed (and preserved status quo / done nothing / stayed put / whatever your word choice of preference is for "remain"), and leave voters were making the argument that their result is invalid due to insufficient majority percentage, and should consequently be ignored, would you consider the argument valid? Are you being obtuse on purpose?
      - tolien 10y ago
        Farage himself said that a close-won Remain vote would result in a second referendum: http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/remembering-what-nigel-farage-said-about-a-new-referendum--Wk91X3XaNZ http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/remembering-what-ni... "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it" Obviously the side that wins isn't going to be in favour of having another go.

Why does the status quo matter? Would a 51% remain vote be more valid than a 55% leave vote, simply based on whether or not it preserves the status quo?

by rfrank 10y ago

Why does the status quo matter? Would a 51% remain vote be more valid than a 55% leave vote, simply based on whether or not it preserves the status quo?

dragonwriter 10y ago

Status quo matters in this narrow context of discussing the validity of reversed headlines and responses to them because "Remain may never happen" would be nonsense with a reversed result; remain is what happens until some action by the government changes it, so if remain won, remain would immediately be happening, just as it was happening before the referendum.

rfrank 10y ago
Simple questions like "would I find this argument acceptable if the outcomes were reversed" are important to consider, especially for a subject like ignoring/reversing the outcomes of democratic elections. If that sort of semantic point makes that impossible to realize, then I don't really know what to tell you.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Simple questions like "would I find this argument acceptable if the outcomes were reversed" are important to consider They can often be useful to consider, certainly, where they make sense. > If that sort of semantic point makes that impossible to realize, then I don't really know what to tell you. You could just recognize that sometimes the trick of reversing values doesn't result in a parallel (or even coherent) scenario to consider, because not every situation is symmetric in the way required for that to be a meaningful thing to consider.
  - rfrank 10y ago
    If the remain vote had prevailed (and preserved status quo / done nothing / stayed put / whatever your word choice of preference is for "remain"), and leave voters were making the argument that their result is invalid due to insufficient majority percentage, and should consequently be ignored, would you consider the argument valid? Are you being obtuse on purpose?
    - tolien 10y ago
      Farage himself said that a close-won Remain vote would result in a second referendum: http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/remembering-what-nigel-farage-said-about-a-new-referendum--Wk91X3XaNZ http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/remembering-what-ni... "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it" Obviously the side that wins isn't going to be in favour of having another go.