3 ms·

The solution is way more simple. Since the stories are driven by the users, i would only allow a certain user profile to join. i.e hackers only. The problem wi

by billbob 19y ago

The solution is way more simple. Since the stories are driven by the users, i would only allow a certain user profile to join. i.e hackers only. The problem with digg and reddit is they allow anyone to join. In almost all UGC sites the users define the site. However if you define your users you define your site.

brlittle 19y ago
What test do you propose, other than self-identification, that would cut across every possible definition of "hacker"?
- randrews 19y ago
  You could make the site invitation-only. In order to join, you have to be invited by a member. Each member gets one invite a year. This is how Livejournal used to work, and it resulted in everyone knowing at least one other person, which was important for a community site.
  - brlittle 19y ago
    So not only do you have a recipe for cripplingly slow growth, but you also fail to ensure improvement in the quality of submissions. It's not like people are invulnerable to "Dude, c'mon...invite me!" from their friends, hacker or otherwise.
    - randrews 19y ago
      We have a pretty good crowd here now. I think that most of our friends would also be a good crowd, and most of the annoying 14-year-olds wouldn't be our friends. And this didn't cripple the growth of Livejournal at all. You only get one invite a year, but you get it immediately on joining. I invite you, you turn around immediately and invite someone else, who invites someone else, etc. The 1/year rule is meant to make me careful about who I spend my one invite on.
      - brlittle 19y ago
        Mmm...yeah, I see your point about the 1/year. Hadn't thought about it that way. And most of the annoying 14-year-olds wouldn't be our friends That's definitely the case here. :)
  - rms 19y ago
    One invite a year? That's pretty extreme.
kirubakaran 19y ago
I understand where you are coming from. However, to me and to many others I know, "Hacker" is an ideal that we strive towards... an asymptote... (Stallman is there...Linus is there...I am not going to be there at least for quite some time. But I am trying hard.)
- misterbwong 19y ago
  I'm with parent. I do enjoy and learn a TON from this site but I doubt I would qualify for any sort of "hacker" title. I'm very much a H.I.T. (hacker in training).
  - kirubakaran 19y ago
    Wow thats a cool term! I am going to call myself a "hitman" from now :-)
- dfranke 19y ago
  > Hacker" is an ideal that we strive towards... an asymptote... I disagree with that. There can't be an asymptote because there's no upper bound. You strive toward infinity and "hacker" is just a mile marker along the way.
  - kirubakaran 19y ago
    True. From my point of reference, it at least seems like an asymptote. The more I learn, the more questions I am coming up with - which seem to increase my mass as I accelerate. May be one day I might have a weird look on my face and be enlightened. ( Airport lady voice gently says "You have arrived" :-p )
    - dfranke 19y ago
      No, that day won't come. You'll have lots of little epiphanies along the way every time you grok some new big beautiful idea, but there isn't going to be any sudden moment of True Enlightenment. I suspect you've already passed the "hacker" milestone without realizing it. The metaphors you're using are a good sign. How do you rate on this rubric? http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#hacker_already http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#hacker_alrea...
brk 19y ago
Honest question, do you really want to limit it to just hackers in (what I am assuming) you mean in the sense of "advanced software developers"? I think (MHO of course) that by "hackers" you should include what I would call the "startup hackers", ie: people that also know how to "hack" business and not just PHP/ROR/etc.
h34t 19y ago
This solution is already functioning (via self-selection), and without need a top-down "you are only allowed if you meet X criteria" administrative layer. It should keep working this way (hopefully) so long as we keep the front page entirely boring to anyone but he or she who has the mind of a hacker. It all relies on perceptions -- our own (those who participate in this community), as our perceptions create the atmosphere of this site, and those of the outsiders (both the outsiders we'd like to join, and those we'd like to keep out), as their perceptions determine whether they decide to join and participate here or not. As has been stated more simply by PG, we want to maintain the perception to unwelcome outsiders that this site will be a waste of their time, and one very good way to do that is for our active participants to keep the front page on-message and full of considered, reasonable words, which most 14-year-olds avoid like leprosy. One thing I really like about this site is its lack of flashy headlines. As soon as people start screwing with post titles to make them juicy and full of the "10 secrets to X, Y, and Z", then we'll get trouble, because the 14-year-old minds won't even realize that they have no interest in what we think and write about. They'll just jump in and turn this calm abode of thoughtfulness into a garbage pail of dandruff.

by billbob 19y ago

brlittle 19y ago

What test do you propose, other than self-identification, that would cut across every possible definition of "hacker"?

randrews 19y ago
You could make the site invitation-only. In order to join, you have to be invited by a member. Each member gets one invite a year. This is how Livejournal used to work, and it resulted in everyone knowing at least one other person, which was important for a community site.
- brlittle 19y ago
  So not only do you have a recipe for cripplingly slow growth, but you also fail to ensure improvement in the quality of submissions. It's not like people are invulnerable to "Dude, c'mon...invite me!" from their friends, hacker or otherwise.
  - randrews 19y ago
    We have a pretty good crowd here now. I think that most of our friends would also be a good crowd, and most of the annoying 14-year-olds wouldn't be our friends. And this didn't cripple the growth of Livejournal at all. You only get one invite a year, but you get it immediately on joining. I invite you, you turn around immediately and invite someone else, who invites someone else, etc. The 1/year rule is meant to make me careful about who I spend my one invite on.
    - brlittle 19y ago
      Mmm...yeah, I see your point about the 1/year. Hadn't thought about it that way. And most of the annoying 14-year-olds wouldn't be our friends That's definitely the case here. :)
- rms 19y ago
  One invite a year? That's pretty extreme.

kirubakaran 19y ago

I understand where you are coming from. However, to me and to many others I know, "Hacker" is an ideal that we strive towards... an asymptote... (Stallman is there...Linus is there...I am not going to be there at least for quite some time. But I am trying hard.)

misterbwong 19y ago
I'm with parent. I do enjoy and learn a TON from this site but I doubt I would qualify for any sort of "hacker" title. I'm very much a H.I.T. (hacker in training).
- kirubakaran 19y ago
  Wow thats a cool term! I am going to call myself a "hitman" from now :-)
dfranke 19y ago
> Hacker" is an ideal that we strive towards... an asymptote... I disagree with that. There can't be an asymptote because there's no upper bound. You strive toward infinity and "hacker" is just a mile marker along the way.
- kirubakaran 19y ago
  True. From my point of reference, it at least seems like an asymptote. The more I learn, the more questions I am coming up with - which seem to increase my mass as I accelerate. May be one day I might have a weird look on my face and be enlightened. ( Airport lady voice gently says "You have arrived" :-p )
  - dfranke 19y ago
    No, that day won't come. You'll have lots of little epiphanies along the way every time you grok some new big beautiful idea, but there isn't going to be any sudden moment of True Enlightenment. I suspect you've already passed the "hacker" milestone without realizing it. The metaphors you're using are a good sign. How do you rate on this rubric? http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#hacker_already http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#hacker_alrea...

brk 19y ago

Honest question, do you really want to limit it to just hackers in (what I am assuming) you mean in the sense of "advanced software developers"? I think (MHO of course) that by "hackers" you should include what I would call the "startup hackers", ie: people that also know how to "hack" business and not just PHP/ROR/etc.

h34t 19y ago

This solution is already functioning (via self-selection), and without need a top-down "you are only allowed if you meet X criteria" administrative layer. It should keep working this way (hopefully) so long as we keep the front page entirely boring to anyone but he or she who has the mind of a hacker. It all relies on perceptions -- our own (those who participate in this community), as our perceptions create the atmosphere of this site, and those of the outsiders (both the outsiders we'd like to join, and those we'd like to keep out), as their perceptions determine whether they decide to join and participate here or not. As has been stated more simply by PG, we want to maintain the perception to unwelcome outsiders that this site will be a waste of their time, and one very good way to do that is for our active participants to keep the front page on-message and full of considered, reasonable words, which most 14-year-olds avoid like leprosy. One thing I really like about this site is its lack of flashy headlines. As soon as people start screwing with post titles to make them juicy and full of the "10 secrets to X, Y, and Z", then we'll get trouble, because the 14-year-old minds won't even realize that they have no interest in what we think and write about. They'll just jump in and turn this calm abode of thoughtfulness into a garbage pail of dandruff.