18 ms·

As much as I'm opposed to Brexit, we can't simply un-ring this bell and pretend it never happened. The issues which lead to the Leave result aren't going to dis

by s_kilk 10y ago

As much as I'm opposed to Brexit, we can't simply un-ring this bell and pretend it never happened. The issues which lead to the Leave result aren't going to disappear, and ignoring the result will just add further to the (already scary) rise in far-right sentiment in the UK.

jonknee 10y ago
It was a non-binding referendum so technically they can quite literally pretend it never happened.
- s_kilk 10y ago
  Sure, if they want riots. Actual, people-dying-in-the-streets riots. Anything is possible, but not everything is politically tennable.
  - jonknee 10y ago
    They wouldn't just say no we're not doing that, they would have another vote. Probably on the really bad deal they'll get from Brussels. So instead of the really vague yes or no of the last election it would be a vote of the actual plan--agree to leave the EU, but still pay them a ton of money, allow immigration, etc etc.
socialist_coder 10y ago
I think it is already spawning change. It's waking up the complacent establishment who thinks they can keep shitting on the working class. The right wing is already capitalizing on this by blaming the problems on immigrants. Hopefully, the left wing wakes up too and brings forth some candidates who can address the real root causes instead of blaming it on immigration.
- s_kilk 10y ago
  > It's waking up the complacent establishment who thinks they can keep shitting on the working class. How so? Theresa May has just formed the most right-wing, anti-working-class Cabinet in living memory, while Labour are busy tearing themselves apart. It doesn't seem the establishment is waking up in any meaningful way.
  - socialist_coder 10y ago
    Yeah, no argument there. I guess my point is that the rise of Trump and the passing of the Brexit has made a lot of people actually realize there is a problem. They still don't want to face it, and you can see with Labour they have no effing clue how to handle it, but at least they see that they can't just continue with business as usual and expect the people to stay happy.
- Nadya 10y ago
  >Hopefully, the left wing wakes up too and brings forth some candidates who can address the real root causes instead of blaming it on immigration. And if the real root cause is immigration? If the answer is so-obviously-not immigration policies, then what? Nobody seems to have an answer. In every modern Western society - it seems Liberals/Leftists are always so fearful of losing the minority votes that they'll prefer no answer over one that could offend their voting base.
  - socialist_coder 10y ago
    You are right, the vast majority of liberal and leftist politicians are afraid of offending their base, but it's not their voting base. It's their funding base. Money drives politics in the US, and that comes from fossil fuels, pharma, defense, banking/finance, tech, and other capitalist interests. It does not come from minoroties or any of their actual voters. Politicians could care less about their constituents, they just need to balance what their corporate backers want against what their constituents want, which is usually very different. So, the root cause lies there. Until we somehow change this, money and corporate interests will continue to rule, at the expense of the people. The longer it goes on without more politicians addressing this, the more people will fall into the right wing fascist trap of blaming immigrants.

by s_kilk 10y ago

jonknee 10y ago

It was a non-binding referendum so technically they can quite literally pretend it never happened.

s_kilk 10y ago
Sure, if they want riots. Actual, people-dying-in-the-streets riots. Anything is possible, but not everything is politically tennable.
- jonknee 10y ago
  They wouldn't just say no we're not doing that, they would have another vote. Probably on the really bad deal they'll get from Brussels. So instead of the really vague yes or no of the last election it would be a vote of the actual plan--agree to leave the EU, but still pay them a ton of money, allow immigration, etc etc.

socialist_coder 10y ago

I think it is already spawning change. It's waking up the complacent establishment who thinks they can keep shitting on the working class. The right wing is already capitalizing on this by blaming the problems on immigrants. Hopefully, the left wing wakes up too and brings forth some candidates who can address the real root causes instead of blaming it on immigration.

s_kilk 10y ago
> It's waking up the complacent establishment who thinks they can keep shitting on the working class. How so? Theresa May has just formed the most right-wing, anti-working-class Cabinet in living memory, while Labour are busy tearing themselves apart. It doesn't seem the establishment is waking up in any meaningful way.
- socialist_coder 10y ago
  Yeah, no argument there. I guess my point is that the rise of Trump and the passing of the Brexit has made a lot of people actually realize there is a problem. They still don't want to face it, and you can see with Labour they have no effing clue how to handle it, but at least they see that they can't just continue with business as usual and expect the people to stay happy.
Nadya 10y ago
>Hopefully, the left wing wakes up too and brings forth some candidates who can address the real root causes instead of blaming it on immigration. And if the real root cause is immigration? If the answer is so-obviously-not immigration policies, then what? Nobody seems to have an answer. In every modern Western society - it seems Liberals/Leftists are always so fearful of losing the minority votes that they'll prefer no answer over one that could offend their voting base.
- socialist_coder 10y ago
  You are right, the vast majority of liberal and leftist politicians are afraid of offending their base, but it's not their voting base. It's their funding base. Money drives politics in the US, and that comes from fossil fuels, pharma, defense, banking/finance, tech, and other capitalist interests. It does not come from minoroties or any of their actual voters. Politicians could care less about their constituents, they just need to balance what their corporate backers want against what their constituents want, which is usually very different. So, the root cause lies there. Until we somehow change this, money and corporate interests will continue to rule, at the expense of the people. The longer it goes on without more politicians addressing this, the more people will fall into the right wing fascist trap of blaming immigrants.