I like it for big apps precisely because of all the stuff that doesn't end up in the app. I have found that I can write 10-20 lines of code and replace just ab

I like it for big apps precisely because of all the stuff that doesn't end up in the app. I have found that I can write 10-20 lines of code and replace just about any plugin, and that makes the app far less complex, particularly when you think of how messy and undisciplined many rails plugins are. I realized that rails offers the biggest benefit if your site uses TONS of forms. It's really not that big a deal to write a few forms by hand, and it makes using client side validation easier and cleaner. I also love datamapper.