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I'm not really on either side (I strongly dislike like Trump but also I don't identify with the left at the moment), but I'm curious about the argument here. Wh

I'm not really on either side (I strongly dislike like Trump but also I don't identify with the left at the moment), but I'm curious about the argument here. Why do you call Trump racist? That's a very strong accusation and I'm wondering what drives your thinking on that.

foldr 10y ago
Are you seriously asking this? Is his long history of racist, xenophobic, misogynistic and (for want of a better term) religiously-bigoted comments not enough for you? Are you asking us to go to Google and turn up one of the hundreds of compilations of these comments that you could very easily find for yourself? Have you forgotten that he was a birther, and still is? Is there anything short of a video of Trump at a KKK rally that would persuade you? It seems you're determined to pretend that he's not a racist despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
- ratbeard 10y ago
  It'd be handy if there was a page listing his comments you could point those who don't really follow what he's said to.
  - foldr 10y ago
    For people who (a) have not been following US politics at all up to now, (b) can't use Google, and (c) have taken a sudden interest in Donald Trump? I didn't think many people matching those criteria would be reading my comment, but ok: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+racist+comments http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+racist+comments Scroll down a bit and you'll see that even Paul Ryan has noticed that there's a problem here.
- thedevil 10y ago
  "Are you seriously asking this?" Yes, I seriously believe in asking questions. Birthers are ridiculous, but you don't actually have to be racist to be a birther. It's driven primarily by partisan politics. Racism just gets mixed in sometimes. Here's what I see, over and over again: Trump does something that is not exactly racist but ambiguous enough to be interpreted as such. The media goes wild and declares him Hitler. But when you read the details, it's not nearly as bad as the media claim. So Trump gets free publicity and makes his critics look unreasonable. A clear example of this is the "star of David" incident. It's a sleazy tactic, but very effective. He uses this tactic not just with racism, but with all kinds of manufactured fake scandals. If you mix in enough of these incidents with your own confirmation bias, you can be very confident that Trump is racist and yet not be able to provide any solid evidence. I suspect this is what is happening here.
  - foldr 10y ago
    >Here's what I see, over and over again: Trump does something that is not exactly racist but ambiguous enough to be interpreted as such. By far the most plausible explanation for that behavior is that he is in fact a racist. However, you've made it clear that you won't believe Trump is a racist unless he goes on TV and says "I am a racist". By your standards of proof, hardly any racists exist in the entire USA. It's also inaccurate, by the way, to say that birthirism is driven by partisan politics. The mainstream of the Republican party never touched it, and it was not a component of McCain's campaign. It's driven by people who don't like the fact that the current President isn't an old white dude. After all, McCain himself really wasn't born in the USA, but no-one ever made much of that. My own preference for POTUS would be someone who, say, doesn't retweet bogus crime statistics by white supremacists, or promulgate factually inaccurate and highly incendiary stereotypes of Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists. You may be ok with a POTUS who does those things. If you are, then there is probably not much point in us having a discussion. By the way, it might surprise you to know that you also have confirmation bias. (As confirmation bias is something that we all have, it tends to be a bit of a double-edged sword, rhetorically speaking.) I can see that you are not going to accept that Trump is a racist simply because you interpret all the evidence on the assumption that he is not. However, the alternative hypothesis you're outlining is that he's someone who cynically exploits racial tensions for political gain. That is hardly any better.
    - thedevil 10y ago
      "However, the alternative hypothesis you're outlining is that he's someone who cynically exploits racial tensions for political gain." This is exactly what I'm saying. And I agree that it's not good. I don't support Trump. I won't vote for him. I'm not okay with people playing off racial politics on either side. I also am not convinced that he's not a racist, I just don't see solid evidence either way. That's why I asked for evidence, and instead of providing it, you just attacked the "standard of proof" you imagine me to have. Your assumption that birthers are all racist (and not just partisan fools) is not proof of anything. You're making up all kinds of assumptions and accusations (before and after all your edits). And then you call me a troll (before editing that out).

foldr 10y ago

Are you seriously asking this? Is his long history of racist, xenophobic, misogynistic and (for want of a better term) religiously-bigoted comments not enough for you? Are you asking us to go to Google and turn up one of the hundreds of compilations of these comments that you could very easily find for yourself? Have you forgotten that he was a birther, and still is? Is there anything short of a video of Trump at a KKK rally that would persuade you? It seems you're determined to pretend that he's not a racist despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

ratbeard 10y ago
It'd be handy if there was a page listing his comments you could point those who don't really follow what he's said to.
- foldr 10y ago
  For people who (a) have not been following US politics at all up to now, (b) can't use Google, and (c) have taken a sudden interest in Donald Trump? I didn't think many people matching those criteria would be reading my comment, but ok: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+racist+comments http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+racist+comments Scroll down a bit and you'll see that even Paul Ryan has noticed that there's a problem here.
thedevil 10y ago
"Are you seriously asking this?" Yes, I seriously believe in asking questions. Birthers are ridiculous, but you don't actually have to be racist to be a birther. It's driven primarily by partisan politics. Racism just gets mixed in sometimes. Here's what I see, over and over again: Trump does something that is not exactly racist but ambiguous enough to be interpreted as such. The media goes wild and declares him Hitler. But when you read the details, it's not nearly as bad as the media claim. So Trump gets free publicity and makes his critics look unreasonable. A clear example of this is the "star of David" incident. It's a sleazy tactic, but very effective. He uses this tactic not just with racism, but with all kinds of manufactured fake scandals. If you mix in enough of these incidents with your own confirmation bias, you can be very confident that Trump is racist and yet not be able to provide any solid evidence. I suspect this is what is happening here.
- foldr 10y ago
  >Here's what I see, over and over again: Trump does something that is not exactly racist but ambiguous enough to be interpreted as such. By far the most plausible explanation for that behavior is that he is in fact a racist. However, you've made it clear that you won't believe Trump is a racist unless he goes on TV and says "I am a racist". By your standards of proof, hardly any racists exist in the entire USA. It's also inaccurate, by the way, to say that birthirism is driven by partisan politics. The mainstream of the Republican party never touched it, and it was not a component of McCain's campaign. It's driven by people who don't like the fact that the current President isn't an old white dude. After all, McCain himself really wasn't born in the USA, but no-one ever made much of that. My own preference for POTUS would be someone who, say, doesn't retweet bogus crime statistics by white supremacists, or promulgate factually inaccurate and highly incendiary stereotypes of Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists. You may be ok with a POTUS who does those things. If you are, then there is probably not much point in us having a discussion. By the way, it might surprise you to know that you also have confirmation bias. (As confirmation bias is something that we all have, it tends to be a bit of a double-edged sword, rhetorically speaking.) I can see that you are not going to accept that Trump is a racist simply because you interpret all the evidence on the assumption that he is not. However, the alternative hypothesis you're outlining is that he's someone who cynically exploits racial tensions for political gain. That is hardly any better.
  - thedevil 10y ago
    "However, the alternative hypothesis you're outlining is that he's someone who cynically exploits racial tensions for political gain." This is exactly what I'm saying. And I agree that it's not good. I don't support Trump. I won't vote for him. I'm not okay with people playing off racial politics on either side. I also am not convinced that he's not a racist, I just don't see solid evidence either way. That's why I asked for evidence, and instead of providing it, you just attacked the "standard of proof" you imagine me to have. Your assumption that birthers are all racist (and not just partisan fools) is not proof of anything. You're making up all kinds of assumptions and accusations (before and after all your edits). And then you call me a troll (before editing that out).