2 ms·

It can't really be both. The one is a reaction to the other. If North Carolina hadn't brought it up, we'd scarcely be talking about it.

Turing_Machine 10y ago
Someone on the other side would argue that if the left-wing hadn't started pushing for it, North Carolina wouldn't have passed the law. Again, no matter what your position is on this, it's quite clear that the "left" is the group that altered the status quo and therefore brought the issue to the foreground.
- brian-armstrong 10y ago
  And again, that isn't correct. The status quo was that you used the bathroom for the gender you identified as. And the status quo was maintained, perhaps silently, for a long time. HB2 upended that and imposed on personal freedoms.
  - sbuttgereit 10y ago
    Not sure what you're getting at, but your history is wrong: "In a one-day specially convened session on March 23, North Carolina’s legislature passed a sweeping law that reverses a Charlotte ordinance that had extended some rights to people who are gay or transgender. Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article68401147.html#storylink=cpy" http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/ar... The North Carolina bill was not something that was pulled from thin air to antagonize a disfavored community, but it was a response to a local ordinance which sought to codify specific legal privileges for that community. No matter what you think of either law, the sequence of events is not how you represent them.
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    No, the status quo was that you used the bathroom that matched your external physical genitalia, not what you "identified as". Your claim is untrue on its face. Now, if you want to argue that it should be otherwise, you won't necessarily find me in disagreement, but claiming things that are contrary to facts does not lead to a productive conversation.
sbuttgereit 10y ago
Of course it can. Why is the origin of a particular controversy relevant to telling both sides to stop sweating the small stuff and get on with the critical business of running the country? If anything the, "they hit me first", sort of back-and-forth is exactly the sort of thing he's saying is the problem. I don't know that Trump is the answer to that, but on his statement at the convention: Thiel is right.

Turing_Machine 10y ago

Someone on the other side would argue that if the left-wing hadn't started pushing for it, North Carolina wouldn't have passed the law. Again, no matter what your position is on this, it's quite clear that the "left" is the group that altered the status quo and therefore brought the issue to the foreground.

brian-armstrong 10y ago
And again, that isn't correct. The status quo was that you used the bathroom for the gender you identified as. And the status quo was maintained, perhaps silently, for a long time. HB2 upended that and imposed on personal freedoms.
- sbuttgereit 10y ago
  Not sure what you're getting at, but your history is wrong: "In a one-day specially convened session on March 23, North Carolina’s legislature passed a sweeping law that reverses a Charlotte ordinance that had extended some rights to people who are gay or transgender. Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article68401147.html#storylink=cpy" http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/ar... The North Carolina bill was not something that was pulled from thin air to antagonize a disfavored community, but it was a response to a local ordinance which sought to codify specific legal privileges for that community. No matter what you think of either law, the sequence of events is not how you represent them.
- Turing_Machine 10y ago
  No, the status quo was that you used the bathroom that matched your external physical genitalia, not what you "identified as". Your claim is untrue on its face. Now, if you want to argue that it should be otherwise, you won't necessarily find me in disagreement, but claiming things that are contrary to facts does not lead to a productive conversation.

sbuttgereit 10y ago

Of course it can. Why is the origin of a particular controversy relevant to telling both sides to stop sweating the small stuff and get on with the critical business of running the country? If anything the, "they hit me first", sort of back-and-forth is exactly the sort of thing he's saying is the problem. I don't know that Trump is the answer to that, but on his statement at the convention: Thiel is right.