5 ms·

Wait, mathematical functions are patentable!?

by cs702 10y ago

Jtsummers 10y ago
May not survive, but it's really their application that's patented. You can patent inventions and processes (how software patents came into being, and also how someone patented a "method for exercising cats" - a laser pointer mounted to a platform that moved it randomly).
- woliveirajr 10y ago
  In some countries you can't patent formulas or processes or even ideas...
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    And, IMO, that's how it should be in the US. But it's not, not yet at least.
  - pkaye 10y ago
    In which countries? Seems like this particular patent is in the EU so that rules out the EU countries...
    - iamcreasy 10y ago
      In India you can't patent software. It has to be hardware related. Indian Patent Office issued it this year.
      - cyphar 10y ago
        Except that system can be counteracted by describing a CPU and then describing an algorithm. Richard Stallman had a talk about patents and mentioned the Indian system.
        iamcreasy 10y ago
        Can you please link the video?
        cyphar 10y ago
        It's this one I believe. I don't have a timestamp (and don't have 2 hours to go through it to find it), though I believe it is a response to a question at the very end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiKRt3-FbM0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiKRt3-FbM0
  - madethemcry 10y ago
    Ideas aren't patentable at all. In no country I guess. You have to transform your idea in something more concrete first. A piece of hardware, a process, a composition of matter you name it. Imagine all those stupid ideas from just lying in the bed and thinking about being patented. Nothing would have been created but everything would have been patented. That's worse than patenting a formula or a piece of software.
    - restalis 10y ago
      One can argue that that thought requires effort as well as a number of other preconditions which are not guaranteed to occur without heavy investment. Not all ideas are equal. Some ideas may be just a mindless combination that can be otherwise obtained from a machinal set up, whereas others can be the result of years of work or of some genius visionary. What I consider necessary is a rating system and a qualification threshold for what is worth to be considered a thing that can be claimed and what can not. I'm aware that a deep rabbit hole is opening here around this issue, but the question is if it's worth having it nevertheless compared to what we have now.
- 0xmohit 10y ago
  > also how someone patented a "method for exercising cats" It appears that USPTO has issued it several times [0]: 6505576 Pet Toy 6557495 Laser Pet Toy 6651591 Automatic laser pet toy and exerciser 6701872 Method and apparatus for automatically exercising a curious animal [0] http://www.freepatentsonline.com/crazy.html http://www.freepatentsonline.com/crazy.html
  - dogweather 10y ago
    Idea, which is 50/50 art and political action: we patent a method for submitting patents, involving computers and the internet. It acts to block people from submitting new patents and so bring the whole irrationality of the US patent system to the foreground.
    - ilostmykeys 10y ago
      Ducking Genius!
Havoc 10y ago
You could probably patent a reddit comment in the US... Whether it'll stick once someone challenges it is another question.
- stevep98 10y ago
  This particular patent is European...
0xmohit 10y ago
If it were developed today, even the numeral system [0] would be patented. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeral_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeral_system
adrianN 10y ago
Software is patentable, genes are patentable, so why not?

Wait, mathematical functions are patentable!?

by cs702 10y ago

Wait, mathematical functions are patentable!?

May not survive, but it's really their application that's patented. You can patent inventions and processes (how software patents came into being, and also how someone patented a "method for exercising cats" - a laser pointer mounted to a platform that moved it randomly).

woliveirajr 10y ago
In some countries you can't patent formulas or processes or even ideas...
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  And, IMO, that's how it should be in the US. But it's not, not yet at least.
- pkaye 10y ago
  In which countries? Seems like this particular patent is in the EU so that rules out the EU countries...
  - iamcreasy 10y ago
    In India you can't patent software. It has to be hardware related. Indian Patent Office issued it this year.
    - cyphar 10y ago
      Except that system can be counteracted by describing a CPU and then describing an algorithm. Richard Stallman had a talk about patents and mentioned the Indian system.
      - iamcreasy 10y ago
        Can you please link the video?
        cyphar 10y ago
        It's this one I believe. I don't have a timestamp (and don't have 2 hours to go through it to find it), though I believe it is a response to a question at the very end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiKRt3-FbM0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiKRt3-FbM0
- madethemcry 10y ago
  Ideas aren't patentable at all. In no country I guess. You have to transform your idea in something more concrete first. A piece of hardware, a process, a composition of matter you name it. Imagine all those stupid ideas from just lying in the bed and thinking about being patented. Nothing would have been created but everything would have been patented. That's worse than patenting a formula or a piece of software.
  - restalis 10y ago
    One can argue that that thought requires effort as well as a number of other preconditions which are not guaranteed to occur without heavy investment. Not all ideas are equal. Some ideas may be just a mindless combination that can be otherwise obtained from a machinal set up, whereas others can be the result of years of work or of some genius visionary. What I consider necessary is a rating system and a qualification threshold for what is worth to be considered a thing that can be claimed and what can not. I'm aware that a deep rabbit hole is opening here around this issue, but the question is if it's worth having it nevertheless compared to what we have now.
0xmohit 10y ago
> also how someone patented a "method for exercising cats" It appears that USPTO has issued it several times [0]: 6505576 Pet Toy 6557495 Laser Pet Toy 6651591 Automatic laser pet toy and exerciser 6701872 Method and apparatus for automatically exercising a curious animal [0] http://www.freepatentsonline.com/crazy.html http://www.freepatentsonline.com/crazy.html
- dogweather 10y ago
  Idea, which is 50/50 art and political action: we patent a method for submitting patents, involving computers and the internet. It acts to block people from submitting new patents and so bring the whole irrationality of the US patent system to the foreground.
  - ilostmykeys 10y ago
    Ducking Genius!

Havoc 10y ago

You could probably patent a reddit comment in the US... Whether it'll stick once someone challenges it is another question.

stevep98 10y ago
This particular patent is European...

0xmohit 10y ago

If it were developed today, even the numeral system [0] would be patented. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeral_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeral_system

adrianN 10y ago

Software is patentable, genes are patentable, so why not?