12 ms·

Why the hell is Reddit trying to make their own content when the entire point of the site is for the users to create the content? Don't make a Reddit podcast,

by bane 10y ago

Why the hell is Reddit trying to make their own content when the entire point of the site is for the users to create the content? Don't make a Reddit podcast, make Reddit a podcast hosting network. Don't make a Reddit video show, make Reddit a video hosting site. Don't make a Reddit magazine, make Reddit a source for anybody to publish their own magazines. Why does Reddit have writers and editors and creative directors? It's like a rock band having a position for a flower arranger. Is this the point where Reddit has official jumped the shark? Where to next for my cat picture memes? edit Want to increase quality and revenue? Give a cut of advertising revenue to the mods of successful, high quality subs. Incentivize for the behavior you want. Provide the platform and get the users to provide, mod and benefit from the content.

RhodesianHunter 10y ago
Or just provide better targeted advertising... On Facebook you can advertise to people based on demographics, interests, behavior, etc. On Reddit you can't even place an add on a specific subreddit if it's not one of the big ones.
- erichocean 10y ago
  > On Reddit you can't even place an add on a specific subreddit if it's not one of the big ones. Would someone please confirm this? If true, wow.
  - teej 10y ago
    I just tried to place an ad for /r/pics and /r/gaming and had no problem getting to "pending ad approval" EDIT: I'm an idiot.
    - omni 10y ago
      Those are huge subreddits, both around 12MM subscribers.
    - wutbrodo 10y ago
      > if it's not one of the big ones I'm pretty sure r/pics and r/gaming are two of the biggest subreddits out there.
    - slouch 10y ago
      those are big ones
  - marcell 10y ago
    This is incorrect. I have placed ads on /r/postmates, which is a small subreddit. You can't target some of the really tiny ones because they lack volume. I think it also "remembers" which subreddits you've visits, and also uses that to target. That said their ad targeting system is quite bad in other ways.
  - Scorpiion 10y ago
    Hi, I have ads running on three subreddits right now, the smallest one has only 1,460 readers. Considering the CTR (click-through rate) I guess putting ads on subreddits smaller than that might not be worth it, even if that ad has been live for over a week it's still at less than 400 impressions/views. As a reference, I have an ad on the /r/programming/ as well with 678,120 readers, that one has 113,613 impressions/views during the same time period.
thenadamgoes 10y ago
It's because everyone wants into the content creation game. It's odd because Youtube, Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu did it because it's about the same cost as paying the content creators. And then they own it. Reddit is already getting their content for free. They should really just focus on improving community features.
Mahn 10y ago
Right on the nail. To me personally, the moves Reddit has been doing the past couple years read as if they don't know exactly what Reddit should be or what they want it to be. I imagine it's not easy, Reddit is massive and somehow not quite killing it, but somehow it feels like there's a strange lack of focus.
- mgalka 10y ago
  The mobile version of the site doesn't work and they only just released a mobile app. That says it all about their lack of focus.
  - tamana 10y ago
    The old i.Reddit.com works OK. The new m.reddit.com fails after a few minutes, on each page.
  - rat87 10y ago
    Android has at least a few very good reddit apps (including the open source Slide), they don't really need an official client.
imh 10y ago
>Incentivize for the behavior you want. This isn't as straightforward as it seems. It's kind of like that old quote, "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." If the behavior you want is there because people are just casually messing around for fake internet points, it will change when you compensate them. It's probably possible, but far from simple.
- erichocean 10y ago
  [DELETED]
  - imh 10y ago
    You could say it more formally as, "Many variables correlated to outcomes you want are not causes of those outcomes. When you intervene and change those variables, they cease to be correlated to the outcomes," but it's a bit verbose[0]. I've always read it to be not about measuring things, but about optimizing the wrong thing, because people will game the system. The concept is valid. What's your concern? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law#Expressions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law#Expressions Turns out the original formulation was "Any observed statistical regularity will tend to collapse once pressure is placed upon it for control purposes."
- jsemrau 10y ago
  Well you manage the number. If your target is a high number of internet points your post will aim to maximize that.
86646 10y ago
Because reddit feels the need to 'curate' everything they host. Can't have that free speech, yo. Someone's feelings might get hurt. Too dangerous.
cerrelio 10y ago
I see why they want to create their own curated content. A friend of mine has created and run several user-generated content sites and he said: "user generated content is worthless; largely racism and porn." It's driven by the lowest common denominator. As long as content is hosted on company-controlled servers where ad revenue is the model for survival, you're going to see slow declines and eventual busts like Digg. Users hate being advertised to and censored. The future is probably something where people pay a small amount to access a forum that's somehow distributed on their machines (phones, PCs, etc) and not controlled by any organization. Data transfer (even mobile) and storage are getting cheaper. It'll be like bitcoin, but for discussions.
- mintplant 10y ago
  So, Usenet?
  - cerrelio 10y ago
    Yes, but for tech-illiterate millennials. Usenet has to be wrapped in various interfaces to make it usable/searchable, and usually shitty VPNs are hawked as add-on to help you avoid your ISP sending you nastygrams for downloading all of Sex and the City or whatever Marvel superhero movie is the current rage.
- drusepth 10y ago
  As an average user, why would I care whether that forum is online or distributed to my machine?
  - cerrelio 10y ago
    You usually don't. Until someone comes along as says "you can't say that" and removes your content, because you don't control it.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Razengan 10y ago
> Give a cut of advertising revenue to the mods of successful, high quality subs. No, oh no. Why mods? Cuts should go to users posting the content. Maybe make it so that OC is rewarded [more], karma "farming" is discouraged, echo chambers don't become the only places with activity, and make sure that hiveminds do not drown out all other discussion. Otherwise Reddit just becomes the online cousin of mainstream media, and a more compelling rival will pop up sooner than later. They could even reward gilded comments that start good discussions, and so on.
- vintermann 10y ago
  Do you want clickbait? Because that's how you get clickbait. There's a big difference between how you think when you ask "Do I want this?" versus when you ask "Will people want this?". You shouldn't confuse these. A lot of scams are based on confusing people about what they want vs. what they think others will want. First and foremost MLM-schemes. You convince yourself the product is good, because you hope to make money from it. Then you convince yourself you will make money from it because the product is so good, in a vicious circle. > echo chambers don't become the only places with activity, and make sure that hiveminds do not drown out all other discussion And do you have a proposal for how to achieve this, beyond the old "putting the right people in charge"?
  - Razengan 10y ago
    > do you have a proposal for how to achieve this, beyond the old "putting the right people in charge"? I was actually brainstorming over this – an alternative, or rather, something that builds upon the fundamentals of the Reddit/HN format – during a long drive today, and I think I did hit upon something that could be effective, and fun. Now to polish up my idea and figure the best way to put it out there. :)
- ManlyBread 10y ago
  Mods are one of the reasons why the site is dying. Huge threads and valuable posts are constantly being deleted because a mod sees a few worthless comments and nukes everything instead of letting the community use the built-in vote mechanism to push these posts to the bottom of the site.
jsemrau 10y ago
Reddit's community has largely alienated content providers with their strictly enforced "spam" rules.
laxatives 10y ago
Because the second a better alternative appears, I'm going to switch to the alternative without hesitation. Having original content provides something that an alternative can never provide, especially if that original content is good. One thing that bothers me about reddit already is the amount of blatant advertising in many subs where people review things. A few brands catch on early and everyone becomes a promoter, sometimes because the brand developed recognition, sometimes because of subversive marketing.
BigCatStuff 10y ago
I think the problem is that most of Reddit's current 'content' isn't monetizable to the degree that they need it to be. In its current form, Reddit is mostly an aggregator of other sites' content, which makes that content much harder for Reddit to make money off of. Self-serve CPM and CPC ads will only get you so far in terms of revenue nowadays. I run a company with an advertising based revenue model with seven figures of yearly revenue, and CPM isn't what the largest advertisers are looking for. Everyone wants custom created content now, and they pay high premiums for this type of content. I love Reddit as a news aggregator, but I can see why they need an editorial and content team for revenue generation. I'm certain that most large user generated content sites like Snapchat and Facebook have writers and editors to help paying advertisers create content.
krisroadruck 10y ago
Amusingly reddit's own policy are very anti-creator in the way you describe. Funny comment? yes. Self publication/promotion = no. You can be banned for submitting your own work. There are slues of marketers that have learned this the hard way.
genericacct 10y ago
I suspect that being owned by a traditional publishing operation is making them behave like one.
RangerScience 10y ago
Why the hell is [Netflix] making their own content when the entire point of the site is for [existing studios] to create the content? On the other hand, you're not wrong. Just because it works for Netflix doesn't mean it CAN work for Reddit, or that Reddit can execute on the idea. ...but Netflix is an amazing example as to the value of a content aggregator/distributor turning their hand to content creation. fake edit Flower arrangement does sound pretty useless, but your comment reminds me of the "no brown m&m's story": http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/vanhalen.asp http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/vanhalen.asp Maybe they're a hippy rock band and instead of a pyrotechnician to light the shit out of the drummer, they need a flower arranger to nature the shit out of it, instead?
CM30 10y ago
> Want to increase quality and revenue? Give a cut of advertising revenue to the mods of successful, high quality subs. I've seen a lot of sites try this, and I'm trying it myself on my own site. However, it can very easily go wrong. If you restrict it to mods (like said here), you incentivise them to only allow topics that advertisers might like (at the expense of the community). Or only topics which can get clicks from average Joes that pass by every now and then. If you provide revenue sharing in general, you often then incentivise spam by giving people a reason to post as quickly as possible to get their ads up there. It's why Digitalpoint scrapped the idea; quality was in the gutter because of it.
- mrcsparker 10y ago
  It might work with Reddit. The cost of creating a new subreddit is zero, so people can move from poorly handled communities. Reddit is struggling for money, but they have an amazing platform to test out ideas on. Out of their millions of users one person should be able to come up with a way to monetize the platform. Google did this with their ads: the most popular ads get rewarded. If I was a moderator and I was given a list of options to generate revenue for Reddit (and myself or my community) I would have to consider it. Maybe I have a community that reviews widgets and I can link to stores that have the best deals for highly reviewed widgets. It is transparent to the community, gives everyone a good deal, and pays for Reddit.

by bane 10y ago

RhodesianHunter 10y ago

Or just provide better targeted advertising... On Facebook you can advertise to people based on demographics, interests, behavior, etc. On Reddit you can't even place an add on a specific subreddit if it's not one of the big ones.

erichocean 10y ago
> On Reddit you can't even place an add on a specific subreddit if it's not one of the big ones. Would someone please confirm this? If true, wow.
- teej 10y ago
  I just tried to place an ad for /r/pics and /r/gaming and had no problem getting to "pending ad approval" EDIT: I'm an idiot.
  - omni 10y ago
    Those are huge subreddits, both around 12MM subscribers.
  - wutbrodo 10y ago
    > if it's not one of the big ones I'm pretty sure r/pics and r/gaming are two of the biggest subreddits out there.
  - slouch 10y ago
    those are big ones
- marcell 10y ago
  This is incorrect. I have placed ads on /r/postmates, which is a small subreddit. You can't target some of the really tiny ones because they lack volume. I think it also "remembers" which subreddits you've visits, and also uses that to target. That said their ad targeting system is quite bad in other ways.
- Scorpiion 10y ago
  Hi, I have ads running on three subreddits right now, the smallest one has only 1,460 readers. Considering the CTR (click-through rate) I guess putting ads on subreddits smaller than that might not be worth it, even if that ad has been live for over a week it's still at less than 400 impressions/views. As a reference, I have an ad on the /r/programming/ as well with 678,120 readers, that one has 113,613 impressions/views during the same time period.

thenadamgoes 10y ago

It's because everyone wants into the content creation game. It's odd because Youtube, Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu did it because it's about the same cost as paying the content creators. And then they own it. Reddit is already getting their content for free. They should really just focus on improving community features.

Mahn 10y ago

Right on the nail. To me personally, the moves Reddit has been doing the past couple years read as if they don't know exactly what Reddit should be or what they want it to be. I imagine it's not easy, Reddit is massive and somehow not quite killing it, but somehow it feels like there's a strange lack of focus.

mgalka 10y ago
The mobile version of the site doesn't work and they only just released a mobile app. That says it all about their lack of focus.
- tamana 10y ago
  The old i.Reddit.com works OK. The new m.reddit.com fails after a few minutes, on each page.
- rat87 10y ago
  Android has at least a few very good reddit apps (including the open source Slide), they don't really need an official client.

imh 10y ago

>Incentivize for the behavior you want. This isn't as straightforward as it seems. It's kind of like that old quote, "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." If the behavior you want is there because people are just casually messing around for fake internet points, it will change when you compensate them. It's probably possible, but far from simple.

erichocean 10y ago
[DELETED]
- imh 10y ago
  You could say it more formally as, "Many variables correlated to outcomes you want are not causes of those outcomes. When you intervene and change those variables, they cease to be correlated to the outcomes," but it's a bit verbose[0]. I've always read it to be not about measuring things, but about optimizing the wrong thing, because people will game the system. The concept is valid. What's your concern? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law#Expressions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law#Expressions Turns out the original formulation was "Any observed statistical regularity will tend to collapse once pressure is placed upon it for control purposes."
jsemrau 10y ago
Well you manage the number. If your target is a high number of internet points your post will aim to maximize that.

86646 10y ago

Because reddit feels the need to 'curate' everything they host. Can't have that free speech, yo. Someone's feelings might get hurt. Too dangerous.

cerrelio 10y ago

I see why they want to create their own curated content. A friend of mine has created and run several user-generated content sites and he said: "user generated content is worthless; largely racism and porn." It's driven by the lowest common denominator. As long as content is hosted on company-controlled servers where ad revenue is the model for survival, you're going to see slow declines and eventual busts like Digg. Users hate being advertised to and censored. The future is probably something where people pay a small amount to access a forum that's somehow distributed on their machines (phones, PCs, etc) and not controlled by any organization. Data transfer (even mobile) and storage are getting cheaper. It'll be like bitcoin, but for discussions.

mintplant 10y ago
So, Usenet?
- cerrelio 10y ago
  Yes, but for tech-illiterate millennials. Usenet has to be wrapped in various interfaces to make it usable/searchable, and usually shitty VPNs are hawked as add-on to help you avoid your ISP sending you nastygrams for downloading all of Sex and the City or whatever Marvel superhero movie is the current rage.
drusepth 10y ago
As an average user, why would I care whether that forum is online or distributed to my machine?
- cerrelio 10y ago
  You usually don't. Until someone comes along as says "you can't say that" and removes your content, because you don't control it.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Razengan 10y ago

> Give a cut of advertising revenue to the mods of successful, high quality subs. No, oh no. Why mods? Cuts should go to users posting the content. Maybe make it so that OC is rewarded [more], karma "farming" is discouraged, echo chambers don't become the only places with activity, and make sure that hiveminds do not drown out all other discussion. Otherwise Reddit just becomes the online cousin of mainstream media, and a more compelling rival will pop up sooner than later. They could even reward gilded comments that start good discussions, and so on.

vintermann 10y ago
Do you want clickbait? Because that's how you get clickbait. There's a big difference between how you think when you ask "Do I want this?" versus when you ask "Will people want this?". You shouldn't confuse these. A lot of scams are based on confusing people about what they want vs. what they think others will want. First and foremost MLM-schemes. You convince yourself the product is good, because you hope to make money from it. Then you convince yourself you will make money from it because the product is so good, in a vicious circle. > echo chambers don't become the only places with activity, and make sure that hiveminds do not drown out all other discussion And do you have a proposal for how to achieve this, beyond the old "putting the right people in charge"?
- Razengan 10y ago
  > do you have a proposal for how to achieve this, beyond the old "putting the right people in charge"? I was actually brainstorming over this – an alternative, or rather, something that builds upon the fundamentals of the Reddit/HN format – during a long drive today, and I think I did hit upon something that could be effective, and fun. Now to polish up my idea and figure the best way to put it out there. :)
ManlyBread 10y ago
Mods are one of the reasons why the site is dying. Huge threads and valuable posts are constantly being deleted because a mod sees a few worthless comments and nukes everything instead of letting the community use the built-in vote mechanism to push these posts to the bottom of the site.

jsemrau 10y ago

Reddit's community has largely alienated content providers with their strictly enforced "spam" rules.

laxatives 10y ago

Because the second a better alternative appears, I'm going to switch to the alternative without hesitation. Having original content provides something that an alternative can never provide, especially if that original content is good. One thing that bothers me about reddit already is the amount of blatant advertising in many subs where people review things. A few brands catch on early and everyone becomes a promoter, sometimes because the brand developed recognition, sometimes because of subversive marketing.

BigCatStuff 10y ago

I think the problem is that most of Reddit's current 'content' isn't monetizable to the degree that they need it to be. In its current form, Reddit is mostly an aggregator of other sites' content, which makes that content much harder for Reddit to make money off of. Self-serve CPM and CPC ads will only get you so far in terms of revenue nowadays. I run a company with an advertising based revenue model with seven figures of yearly revenue, and CPM isn't what the largest advertisers are looking for. Everyone wants custom created content now, and they pay high premiums for this type of content. I love Reddit as a news aggregator, but I can see why they need an editorial and content team for revenue generation. I'm certain that most large user generated content sites like Snapchat and Facebook have writers and editors to help paying advertisers create content.

krisroadruck 10y ago

Amusingly reddit's own policy are very anti-creator in the way you describe. Funny comment? yes. Self publication/promotion = no. You can be banned for submitting your own work. There are slues of marketers that have learned this the hard way.

genericacct 10y ago

I suspect that being owned by a traditional publishing operation is making them behave like one.

RangerScience 10y ago

Why the hell is [Netflix] making their own content when the entire point of the site is for [existing studios] to create the content? On the other hand, you're not wrong. Just because it works for Netflix doesn't mean it CAN work for Reddit, or that Reddit can execute on the idea. ...but Netflix is an amazing example as to the value of a content aggregator/distributor turning their hand to content creation. fake edit Flower arrangement does sound pretty useless, but your comment reminds me of the "no brown m&m's story": http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/vanhalen.asp http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/vanhalen.asp Maybe they're a hippy rock band and instead of a pyrotechnician to light the shit out of the drummer, they need a flower arranger to nature the shit out of it, instead?

CM30 10y ago

> Want to increase quality and revenue? Give a cut of advertising revenue to the mods of successful, high quality subs. I've seen a lot of sites try this, and I'm trying it myself on my own site. However, it can very easily go wrong. If you restrict it to mods (like said here), you incentivise them to only allow topics that advertisers might like (at the expense of the community). Or only topics which can get clicks from average Joes that pass by every now and then. If you provide revenue sharing in general, you often then incentivise spam by giving people a reason to post as quickly as possible to get their ads up there. It's why Digitalpoint scrapped the idea; quality was in the gutter because of it.

mrcsparker 10y ago
It might work with Reddit. The cost of creating a new subreddit is zero, so people can move from poorly handled communities. Reddit is struggling for money, but they have an amazing platform to test out ideas on. Out of their millions of users one person should be able to come up with a way to monetize the platform. Google did this with their ads: the most popular ads get rewarded. If I was a moderator and I was given a list of options to generate revenue for Reddit (and myself or my community) I would have to consider it. Maybe I have a community that reviews widgets and I can link to stores that have the best deals for highly reviewed widgets. It is transparent to the community, gives everyone a good deal, and pays for Reddit.