4 ms·

Great read, but I don't buy it. I've not been to Kazakhstan but traveled Africa and South America extensively. I've been to war zones. A lot of things don't add

by jlg23 10y ago

Great read, but I don't buy it. I've not been to Kazakhstan but traveled Africa and South America extensively. I've been to war zones. A lot of things don't add up: * A cop takes a bribe, is surprised the tourist is in some computer and then returns the bribe? I've never ever encountered a cop who takes bribes but does not know how the system works. They are not this stupid. This, by the way, is the best way to avoid bribing: Point out you accept punishment and let them work out the consequences for them - paperwork, getting you to jail etc. All this for a visa that expired a few hours ago? I'm sure they'll find a less work-intensive way to let you go. * Cops being happy to have some "criminal" around for getting drunk and they even pay? No, they rather take your money and get drunk with their friends. * The girl's story did not make much sense (abortion, breaking up, being raped, leaving school, being arrested, being dug on by a male guard while making out with a female guard and all of this within 24h? wait, what, I am missing some connections here). I'm not saying that the base of the story ain't true, but there is, IMHO, a lot of storytelling in there, too.

Pinatubo 10y ago
If you read his story about his SF arrest you'll see he and his friend were drunkenly interfering with paramedics trying to treat an accident victim, even after the police told them to stop. He then threatened to commit suicide while in jail and got put on psychiatric hold. And somehow he turns that into a story of injustice. So yes, he likes storytelling.
- jjawssd 10y ago
  Good perspective
- umwhat999 10y ago
  Um, what? I read the story of his SF arrest. That's... not what happened. He was arrested because the police resented that he did not immediately 'respect my authoritah'. He was not interfering with paramedics. He was a safe distance away. He got put on psychiatric hold by the police as retribution for insisting it is reasonable for him to have the right to see a doctor for medical treatment. Medical treatment which was only required because the police physically assaulted him. It's very hard to imagine a retelling of his story which doesn't involve substantial police misconduct.
  - Pinatubo 10y ago
    In the time it took you to make that throwaway account you could have read this: http://sfist.com/2014/02/18/young_tech_worker_who_called_911_on.php http://sfist.com/2014/02/18/young_tech_worker_who_called_911... or this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/779439/police_report_annotated.pdf https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/779439/police_report_ann... LOL, he stated he was a medic and tried to push his way past the police.
    - umwhat999 10y ago
      That's a... selective reading of that police report. The idea that it is right for police to violently enforce their every whim if one does not immediately obey all commands is a serious problem. For one, only a small subset of all possible commands a police officer could make are commands which one is legally obligated to follow. Secondly, I think we want a society where police choose constructive dialog over violence. Nothing about this incident was necessary or proportionate. Unnecessary violence has made policing dangerous lately. A few years ago it was more dangerous to supervise lawncare, be a taxi driver, collect garbage, or be a handyman than it was to be a police officer. I wonder if this year's escalations will lead to policing actually becoming a dangerous profession. :(
      - trhway 10y ago
        >Secondly, I think we want a society where police choose constructive dialog over violence. seeing how deep the police got addicted to violence one can only wonder whether it is possible for them to get sober at all. I mean you can't make that up - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/21/fla-police-shoot-black-man-with-his-hands-up-as-he-tries-to-help-autistic-patient/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/2... . Just make sure to watch the video. The police tried to shoot the autistic patient even after the therapist clearly explained to them everything, and there were absolutely no danger to anybody. The police screwed the shot [fortunately] and instead of killing the autistic patient they hit the therapist in the leg.
        10y ago
higgsfield 10y ago
I live in Kazakhstan and this story is absolutely true in my opinion. Yerlan (Irlan is incorrect) just wanted to get "easy" money from foreign. I even think this was a first time when he'd wanted to take a bribe as he hadn't known how computer system works. "Cops being happy to have some "criminal" around for getting drunk and they even pay?" - lol he was just a poor student whose visa expired, he wasn't a drug dealer. In Kazakhstan, most people are hospitable. And paying for guests is absolutely normal. "The girl's story did not make much sense" - in our country sexual education is at a very low level. Abortions at young age is a big problem in poor small cities like where author have been.
cr1895 10y ago
>I've not been to Kazakhstan but traveled Africa and South America extensively. I don't follow why the steppes of Central Asia should be culturally similar to Africa and South America (each massively diverse in their own right).
coldtea 10y ago
"I've never ever encountered a cop who takes bribes but does not know how the system works.". It's not about now knowing how the system works, it's just not knowing what its going to happen. The kid could easily be overlooked by the border guards since he had his passport, and it might have took extreme due diligence on their part to bother to look it up on the computer. >Cops being happy to have some "criminal" around for getting drunk and they even pay? No, they rather take your money and get drunk with their friends. If you travel in the right places and chance on the right people, the first can happen just as well. Especially if you have to be in their company (custody etc) in the first place for a few days, it's some small place and you're seen as interesting talking material, and lots of other situations. Even bribe-taking officials are not one-sided hardened corrupted caricatures.

by jlg23 10y ago

Pinatubo 10y ago

If you read his story about his SF arrest you'll see he and his friend were drunkenly interfering with paramedics trying to treat an accident victim, even after the police told them to stop. He then threatened to commit suicide while in jail and got put on psychiatric hold. And somehow he turns that into a story of injustice. So yes, he likes storytelling.

jjawssd 10y ago
Good perspective
umwhat999 10y ago
Um, what? I read the story of his SF arrest. That's... not what happened. He was arrested because the police resented that he did not immediately 'respect my authoritah'. He was not interfering with paramedics. He was a safe distance away. He got put on psychiatric hold by the police as retribution for insisting it is reasonable for him to have the right to see a doctor for medical treatment. Medical treatment which was only required because the police physically assaulted him. It's very hard to imagine a retelling of his story which doesn't involve substantial police misconduct.
- Pinatubo 10y ago
  In the time it took you to make that throwaway account you could have read this: http://sfist.com/2014/02/18/young_tech_worker_who_called_911_on.php http://sfist.com/2014/02/18/young_tech_worker_who_called_911... or this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/779439/police_report_annotated.pdf https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/779439/police_report_ann... LOL, he stated he was a medic and tried to push his way past the police.
  - umwhat999 10y ago
    That's a... selective reading of that police report. The idea that it is right for police to violently enforce their every whim if one does not immediately obey all commands is a serious problem. For one, only a small subset of all possible commands a police officer could make are commands which one is legally obligated to follow. Secondly, I think we want a society where police choose constructive dialog over violence. Nothing about this incident was necessary or proportionate. Unnecessary violence has made policing dangerous lately. A few years ago it was more dangerous to supervise lawncare, be a taxi driver, collect garbage, or be a handyman than it was to be a police officer. I wonder if this year's escalations will lead to policing actually becoming a dangerous profession. :(
    - trhway 10y ago
      >Secondly, I think we want a society where police choose constructive dialog over violence. seeing how deep the police got addicted to violence one can only wonder whether it is possible for them to get sober at all. I mean you can't make that up - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/21/fla-police-shoot-black-man-with-his-hands-up-as-he-tries-to-help-autistic-patient/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/2... . Just make sure to watch the video. The police tried to shoot the autistic patient even after the therapist clearly explained to them everything, and there were absolutely no danger to anybody. The police screwed the shot [fortunately] and instead of killing the autistic patient they hit the therapist in the leg.
      - 10y ago

higgsfield 10y ago

I live in Kazakhstan and this story is absolutely true in my opinion. Yerlan (Irlan is incorrect) just wanted to get "easy" money from foreign. I even think this was a first time when he'd wanted to take a bribe as he hadn't known how computer system works. "Cops being happy to have some "criminal" around for getting drunk and they even pay?" - lol he was just a poor student whose visa expired, he wasn't a drug dealer. In Kazakhstan, most people are hospitable. And paying for guests is absolutely normal. "The girl's story did not make much sense" - in our country sexual education is at a very low level. Abortions at young age is a big problem in poor small cities like where author have been.

cr1895 10y ago

>I've not been to Kazakhstan but traveled Africa and South America extensively. I don't follow why the steppes of Central Asia should be culturally similar to Africa and South America (each massively diverse in their own right).

coldtea 10y ago

"I've never ever encountered a cop who takes bribes but does not know how the system works.". It's not about now knowing how the system works, it's just not knowing what its going to happen. The kid could easily be overlooked by the border guards since he had his passport, and it might have took extreme due diligence on their part to bother to look it up on the computer. >Cops being happy to have some "criminal" around for getting drunk and they even pay? No, they rather take your money and get drunk with their friends. If you travel in the right places and chance on the right people, the first can happen just as well. Especially if you have to be in their company (custody etc) in the first place for a few days, it's some small place and you're seen as interesting talking material, and lots of other situations. Even bribe-taking officials are not one-sided hardened corrupted caricatures.