3 ms·

A 45-story building is much more expensive than 9 5-story buildings and causes localized transportation problems. You really want your housing, jobs, education

A 45-story building is much more expensive than 9 5-story buildings and causes localized transportation problems. You really want your housing, jobs, education, retail, and leisure spread around such that people can conduct most or all of their daily affairs on foot.

nerfhammer 10y ago
If you want people to be able conduct all of your daily affairs on foot 45 story buildings are the way to go.
- honkhonkpants 10y ago
  There are examples of that working and there are examples of shorter heights working equally well. I enjoy them both (Manhattan and Paris as examples of the two types) but what SF is doing doesn't really work for me. All the high rise residences are being built in a small area south of Market, but in the same neighborhoods there's nothing to do, nothing to eat, no public spaces. It's not very livable.
  - 3s933x7dpsh 10y ago
    I can't agree, there are lots of restaurants in SOMA as well as the city's best nightlife IMO.
    - honkhonkpants 10y ago
      Nightlife I'll grant you. But I bet if you moved into the new apartments on Beale and Folsom you'd take an Uber everywhere, because there's nowhere to eat lunch on a Saturday within half a mile, and the nightlife is 1.5+ miles away.
      - 3s933x7dpsh 10y ago
        That part in the middle of South Beach is a weird little restaurant desert. However if you are willing to make the 10 minute walk I'd recommend the Delancey Street Restaurant for a nice place for brunch with a good social mission. I had many a mimosa there when living in the corporate housing across the street.
- laurencerowe 10y ago
  High-rise buildings really aren't necessary for a walkable lifestyle. 5-6 stories (Berlin style) and everything you need is within a couple of blocks. Even with UK style terraced streets usually mean you have shops/cafes/pubs within easy walking distance.
rhino369 10y ago
>A 45-story building is much more expensive than 9 5-story buildings Including land costs, is that really true? I sort of doubt it, since those sorts of high rises are built in cities where land prices aren't that high. > You really want your housing, jobs, education, retail, and leisure spread around such that people can conduct most or all of their daily affairs on foot. Don't you want the opposite of that? If it is spread, you spend more time traveling. Public transit that is spread out is very hard to accomplish. Cities with that stuff all spread out are car cities.
- honkhonkpants 10y ago
  If things are spread out and randomly distributed then you have a living economy reachable by foot. There will be a bakery, a barber, a library, and a cafe in your neighborhood. If you put all the houses in one place and all the bakeries in another, then you have to get in your car or on the bus to travel between them. I always trot out Paris, but that's only because it's such a good example. https://www.google.com/maps/search/bakery/@48.8858374,2.334799,3a,75y,102.33h,83.45t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sys9zaZcLB6rHweM-mF1b-A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dys9zaZcLB6rHweM-mF1b-A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D98.918724%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/search/bakery/@48.8858374,2.3347...

nerfhammer 10y ago

If you want people to be able conduct all of your daily affairs on foot 45 story buildings are the way to go.

honkhonkpants 10y ago
There are examples of that working and there are examples of shorter heights working equally well. I enjoy them both (Manhattan and Paris as examples of the two types) but what SF is doing doesn't really work for me. All the high rise residences are being built in a small area south of Market, but in the same neighborhoods there's nothing to do, nothing to eat, no public spaces. It's not very livable.
- 3s933x7dpsh 10y ago
  I can't agree, there are lots of restaurants in SOMA as well as the city's best nightlife IMO.
  - honkhonkpants 10y ago
    Nightlife I'll grant you. But I bet if you moved into the new apartments on Beale and Folsom you'd take an Uber everywhere, because there's nowhere to eat lunch on a Saturday within half a mile, and the nightlife is 1.5+ miles away.
    - 3s933x7dpsh 10y ago
      That part in the middle of South Beach is a weird little restaurant desert. However if you are willing to make the 10 minute walk I'd recommend the Delancey Street Restaurant for a nice place for brunch with a good social mission. I had many a mimosa there when living in the corporate housing across the street.
laurencerowe 10y ago
High-rise buildings really aren't necessary for a walkable lifestyle. 5-6 stories (Berlin style) and everything you need is within a couple of blocks. Even with UK style terraced streets usually mean you have shops/cafes/pubs within easy walking distance.

rhino369 10y ago

>A 45-story building is much more expensive than 9 5-story buildings Including land costs, is that really true? I sort of doubt it, since those sorts of high rises are built in cities where land prices aren't that high. > You really want your housing, jobs, education, retail, and leisure spread around such that people can conduct most or all of their daily affairs on foot. Don't you want the opposite of that? If it is spread, you spend more time traveling. Public transit that is spread out is very hard to accomplish. Cities with that stuff all spread out are car cities.

honkhonkpants 10y ago
If things are spread out and randomly distributed then you have a living economy reachable by foot. There will be a bakery, a barber, a library, and a cafe in your neighborhood. If you put all the houses in one place and all the bakeries in another, then you have to get in your car or on the bus to travel between them. I always trot out Paris, but that's only because it's such a good example. https://www.google.com/maps/search/bakery/@48.8858374,2.334799,3a,75y,102.33h,83.45t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sys9zaZcLB6rHweM-mF1b-A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dys9zaZcLB6rHweM-mF1b-A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D98.918724%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/search/bakery/@48.8858374,2.3347...