4 ms·

What positions has Trump taken that you feel are against facts and adequate rational?

by toss1941 10y ago

maxxxxx 10y ago
He makes up a lot of facts on the fly and then claims that he has been misinterpreted. The whole wall to Mexico thing and have Mexico pay for it is ridiculous. Now he questions the NATO treaties. I haven't heard anything from him that indicates deep thinking about an issue.
- goodcitizen147 10y ago
  Why is building a wall ridiculous? Humans have been buildings walls for thousands of years. Yes, NATO countries should be fulfilling their obligations under the NATO treaty. Seems reasonable to question that. > I haven't heard anything from him that indicates deep thinking about an issue. You haven't heard anything as filtered through CNN, NY Times, Huffington Post, Vox, or whatever other rag you read. Just watch the man's speeches about foreign policy or the aftermath of the Orlando shooting.
- toss1941 10y ago
  I'll be honest I haven't been following a lot of his positions on things other than what spills over into the tech/security folks I follow on twitter and various other sites. I didn't know about the NATO comments but here's what I learned about him just today [0]: (edit: talking about whether Trump would defend Turkey if Russia invaded unprovoked): Trump said he would have to think about whether those countries “have fulfilled their obligations to us.” Trump clarified, “If they fulfill their obligations to us, the answer is yes.” It seems pretty rational to me; he's saying that if a country like Turkey wants to acquire the benefits of a military alliance they need to pay their fair share. On the surface that seems reasonable to me and honestly, from reading here if Erdrogan got attacked by Russia I doubt most of Trump's enemies would shed any tears about his stance on NATO anyway. [0] http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/21/trump-doesnt-care-about-erdogans-purges-says-he-may-not-honor-nato-treaty/#ixzz4F3u0HUDx http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/21/trump-doesnt-care-about-er...
  - ceejayoz 10y ago
    Enforcing the obligation means NATO doesn't exist. Only the US and Estonia would be left. Advocating for them to meet the pledge is one thing, but refusing to defend them under the treaty because of it would be catastrophic. http://www.businessinsider.com/only-us-and-estonia-meeting-nato-budget-goal-2015-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/only-us-and-estonia-meeting-n...
    - DefaultUserHN 10y ago
      But people hate it when the United States police the world. Why should the United States holds its end of the deal and defends those if they don't hold their end of the deal? People want the United States to stop policing the world. Well, under Trump, the United States will stop policing the world. Isn't that what people want?
      - ceejayoz 10y ago
        People hate it when the US doesn't, too. I don't think a world without NATO is likely to make many in the West all that happy.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    This is not some business deal where you can change terms later on and let the courts decide. Turkey needs to know if NATO will be there for them or not. He can call for larger contributions of course and tell them upfront that NATO won't help them until conditions are met. But he can't decide at the time Russia invades. Then he may as well leave NATO. Trump was also a "birther". That alone shows to me that he doesn't take politics seriously.
    - splintercell 10y ago
      > Turkey needs to know if NATO will be there for them or not. He can call for larger contributions of course and tell them upfront that NATO won't help them until conditions are met. Question, have you heard or read Trump's foreign policy speech? https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-foreign-policy-speech https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-... He lays out many criticism of our current foreign policy, including that we don't negotiate our deals properly, and this results in us not being reliable among our friends, and respected among our enemies. I recommend reading it.
tstactplsignore 10y ago
Have you paid attention at all? Anti-climate change, anti-vaccines, the entire illegal immigration schtick (immigration across the border is net neutral right now), his whole "crime is rising" schtick (it isn't),and the vast majority of [what he says are outright lies](http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/). There is no better way to describe the Trump campaign than to say it is inherently against facts- the only coherent strain in his platform is a denial of reality. The mere idea that a billionaire proposing tax cuts for the super wealthy is "fighting the system" is a delusional, inherently contradictory image.
- randothrowaway 10y ago
  >the entire illegal immigration schtick (immigration across >the border is net neutral right now), Not it is not. Pro illegal immigration advocates try to mislead by saying immigration from Mexican citizens is down to mean illegal immigration isn't happening. It is now other groups but still coming VIA Mexico.
  - tstactplsignore 10y ago
    No, that's just not true. The best estimates of all illegal immigration are that it is close to net zero. (http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/aug/28/jeb-bush/jeb-bush-says-illegal-immigration-net-zero/ http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/aug/28/jeb...).
- DefaultUserHN 10y ago
  >...a billionaire proposing tax cuts for the super wealthy is "fighting the system" is a delusional.... You act as if Trump is only helping the rich. Trump is helping everyone. Although he cut taxes for the rich, he also cut taxes for the poor. Under Trump's tax plan, poor people don't even pay tax. If you're single and you make less than $25,000 per year, you don't pay tax. If you have a wife and you make less than $50,000 per year, you don't pay tax. If you have a wife and a kid and you make less than $75,000 per year, you don't pay tax.

What positions has Trump taken that you feel are against facts and adequate rational?

He makes up a lot of facts on the fly and then claims that he has been misinterpreted. The whole wall to Mexico thing and have Mexico pay for it is ridiculous. Now he questions the NATO treaties. I haven't heard anything from him that indicates deep thinking about an issue.

goodcitizen147 10y ago
Why is building a wall ridiculous? Humans have been buildings walls for thousands of years. Yes, NATO countries should be fulfilling their obligations under the NATO treaty. Seems reasonable to question that. > I haven't heard anything from him that indicates deep thinking about an issue. You haven't heard anything as filtered through CNN, NY Times, Huffington Post, Vox, or whatever other rag you read. Just watch the man's speeches about foreign policy or the aftermath of the Orlando shooting.
toss1941 10y ago
I'll be honest I haven't been following a lot of his positions on things other than what spills over into the tech/security folks I follow on twitter and various other sites. I didn't know about the NATO comments but here's what I learned about him just today [0]: (edit: talking about whether Trump would defend Turkey if Russia invaded unprovoked): Trump said he would have to think about whether those countries “have fulfilled their obligations to us.” Trump clarified, “If they fulfill their obligations to us, the answer is yes.” It seems pretty rational to me; he's saying that if a country like Turkey wants to acquire the benefits of a military alliance they need to pay their fair share. On the surface that seems reasonable to me and honestly, from reading here if Erdrogan got attacked by Russia I doubt most of Trump's enemies would shed any tears about his stance on NATO anyway. [0] http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/21/trump-doesnt-care-about-erdogans-purges-says-he-may-not-honor-nato-treaty/#ixzz4F3u0HUDx http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/21/trump-doesnt-care-about-er...
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  Enforcing the obligation means NATO doesn't exist. Only the US and Estonia would be left. Advocating for them to meet the pledge is one thing, but refusing to defend them under the treaty because of it would be catastrophic. http://www.businessinsider.com/only-us-and-estonia-meeting-nato-budget-goal-2015-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/only-us-and-estonia-meeting-n...
  - DefaultUserHN 10y ago
    But people hate it when the United States police the world. Why should the United States holds its end of the deal and defends those if they don't hold their end of the deal? People want the United States to stop policing the world. Well, under Trump, the United States will stop policing the world. Isn't that what people want?
    - ceejayoz 10y ago
      People hate it when the US doesn't, too. I don't think a world without NATO is likely to make many in the West all that happy.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  This is not some business deal where you can change terms later on and let the courts decide. Turkey needs to know if NATO will be there for them or not. He can call for larger contributions of course and tell them upfront that NATO won't help them until conditions are met. But he can't decide at the time Russia invades. Then he may as well leave NATO. Trump was also a "birther". That alone shows to me that he doesn't take politics seriously.
  - splintercell 10y ago
    > Turkey needs to know if NATO will be there for them or not. He can call for larger contributions of course and tell them upfront that NATO won't help them until conditions are met. Question, have you heard or read Trump's foreign policy speech? https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-foreign-policy-speech https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-... He lays out many criticism of our current foreign policy, including that we don't negotiate our deals properly, and this results in us not being reliable among our friends, and respected among our enemies. I recommend reading it.

tstactplsignore 10y ago

Have you paid attention at all? Anti-climate change, anti-vaccines, the entire illegal immigration schtick (immigration across the border is net neutral right now), his whole "crime is rising" schtick (it isn't),and the vast majority of [what he says are outright lies](http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/). There is no better way to describe the Trump campaign than to say it is inherently against facts- the only coherent strain in his platform is a denial of reality. The mere idea that a billionaire proposing tax cuts for the super wealthy is "fighting the system" is a delusional, inherently contradictory image.

randothrowaway 10y ago
>the entire illegal immigration schtick (immigration across >the border is net neutral right now), Not it is not. Pro illegal immigration advocates try to mislead by saying immigration from Mexican citizens is down to mean illegal immigration isn't happening. It is now other groups but still coming VIA Mexico.
- tstactplsignore 10y ago
  No, that's just not true. The best estimates of all illegal immigration are that it is close to net zero. (http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/aug/28/jeb-bush/jeb-bush-says-illegal-immigration-net-zero/ http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/aug/28/jeb...).
DefaultUserHN 10y ago
>...a billionaire proposing tax cuts for the super wealthy is "fighting the system" is a delusional.... You act as if Trump is only helping the rich. Trump is helping everyone. Although he cut taxes for the rich, he also cut taxes for the poor. Under Trump's tax plan, poor people don't even pay tax. If you're single and you make less than $25,000 per year, you don't pay tax. If you have a wife and you make less than $50,000 per year, you don't pay tax. If you have a wife and a kid and you make less than $75,000 per year, you don't pay tax.