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She barely takes home minimum wage and she is self-employed. Most of her peers are in a similar position. It is not a vocation you get in to for the money. Edi

She barely takes home minimum wage and she is self-employed. Most of her peers are in a similar position. It is not a vocation you get in to for the money. Edit: A common problem in her sector, and other therapy sectors, is that all the recognised diagnosis and treatment systems get bought by the likes of Pearson and other big technical publishers who will demand recurring payments to use the system. For example Owls, a common speech therapy system requires her to use their pre-printed forms to take notes. The basic diagnosis pack costs over $700, but she has to keep buying the forms at $60 for 25 - even thought he system rarely changes.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
How much do you think it'd cost to replicate the software as an open source tool? I've written grants before for funding open source projects, and this anecdote boils my blood.
- soperj 10y ago
  Yeah, this is just plain thievery from people who can least afford it.
- japhyr 10y ago
  Can you say a bit more about the process of writing grants for open source projects? I have some long-term education related projects that I'm considering grant funding to support. I have some ideas how to go about it, but I'd love to hear what you've done.
- safeignorance 10y ago
  Taking on Pearson and other companies that use similarly predatory tactics to extract value from society's most disadvantaged is exactly the sort of "disruption" that the world needs more of. That said, I doubt one could go at it alone with no support or with only a grant -- building up mind share, fighting off BS patent threats, and doing enough sales to break even on these non-development costs aren't the sort of things that a government/ngo grant will typically support. And even if you could find the money, you'll still need access to a network of experts. Someone should setup a fund that force-multiplies government/NGO grants for societally beneifical OSS with funding and access to expertise for these other things (legal/marketing/etc.). The aim could just be breaking even on non-grant-funded costs by selling support/branding/etc. to institutional players like hospitals and large chains.
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    Agree re: disruption. I've thought about this type of thing a lot, and I wish there was a way to fix the root cause instead of what I consider the symptom (dodgy overpriced software for a specific niche, especially when it targets non-technical users and/or has to do with medicine / HELPING HUMANS PHYSICALLY). I came to the conclusion that it's Very Hard to disincentivize greed. Anyone have any ideas for what could be done to help curb behavior like this by companies (companies which are really just people who are making these kinds of decisions -- never forget that)?
    - evincarofautumn 10y ago
      I’m not sure there’s any overt greed exactly. A company saw a market and launched a product for that market. But like most companies and products, especially in the case of a de facto monopoly, they’re not very good. When there’s no competition, why spend the money to innovate or improve? Your customers are still going to buy your shit. The best way to improve the status quo on a case-by-case basis is to introduce competition, say by developing a better product, marketing it well, and basically out-predating the theretofore market predators. The marketing is easy if you can get enough momentum behind it: “FooCorp wants to sell you these materials for $absurd. We made these better alternative materials. You can print the basic set yourself for free, or order any of our wide, high-quality selection, starting from $reasonable.” I don’t think there is a general solution to the underlying cause, though.
    - ashitlerferad 10y ago
      Competition from the open source world perhaps.
  - rexpop 10y ago
    Realistically, what kind of skillsets, experience and understanding would be required to setup and operate such a fund?
  - TrevorJ 10y ago
    Sounds like something Ycombinator should look at soliciting startups for.
- DoubleGlazing 10y ago
  Its really simple software, essentially a VU meter. The therapy involves getting patients to shout in a certain way and try and reach certain volume levels or follow certain volume patterns. E.g. shout gently for five seconds and gradually ramp up the volume over 10 seconds. It would be really easy to replicate. I reckon the most time consuming part would be testing and calibration. The whole app directory is less than 2MB.
  - emmelaich 10y ago
    Seems like a audio program like Audacity or maybe Ardour would do the job.
  - thirdsun 10y ago
    Really, any audio editor would do. But you should look into Max/MSP ( https://cycling74.com/products/max/ https://cycling74.com/products/max/ ), where you could build and bundle a simple audio app like that in minutes and have it tailored to your specific needs.
- imglorp 10y ago
  Another business that does this is the hearing aid racket. An audiologist examines a patient, comes up with a patient's profile (some kind of EQ / convolution map), and then loads that into the hearing aid using proprietary programming cable and software. There are other settings more under the preferences category than DSP, like what profiles go on what switch setting, beeps, things like that. But these are all guarded jealously. The aids are very expensive, more than $5k, for what's now ancient tech. They've only recently gotten BT and only then at the high end, more like $8k for the BT models. We really need open hardware and software, so home users can get an audiologist to compute their profile and then do what they want with it.
  - frostburg 10y ago
    I wonder how different the hearing aids are from a custom IEM designed for live performances... That market is vastly more competitive.
    - imglorp 10y ago
      As I understand it, the audiologist prescription includes an EQ map as well as few different types of filters for different situations: music, conversation in crowded room, 1:1 conversation, etc. Hearing impairments are not totally amplitude dips but also comprehension ones. SO I suspect aids have a few extra DSP filters available to the programmer that IEM's don't, while IEM's probably have wider range and better reproduction for the musician's taste.
  - rosege 10y ago
    Yes you are right, this sector is full of scam artists. See here http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/2014-11-30/5920176 http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbrief... My father who is in the age group now pretty much confirmed all of this when recently shopping for one. As it was covered by his health care they were trying to flog him one at a ridiculous price.
  - evincarofautumn 10y ago
    I saw this kind of predation secondhand when my maternal grandmother (I know her as “babcia”) went in for hearing aids. Her main problem was actually earwax buildup, not general hearing loss. But there’s no money in giving a patient a script for ear drops, so they managed to convince her to drop thousands in insurance dollars and no small amount of her personal dollars as well. <sigh> But, she can hear, and she’s happy. I guess that’s how these companies get away with it—you can satisfy a customer without doing a whole lot of actual good for them.
- davb 10y ago
  > I've written grants before for funding open source projects Is this a common thing? I would absolutely love to be funded to work on a bespoke open source project for such a good cause.
Paul-ish 10y ago
Could a professional organization of speech therapist come together and fund a competitor? Obviously you would need to deal with the free rider problem somehow.
- niij 10y ago
  The "free rider" problem has been solved. Unfortunately the solution is to have ruthless for-profit businesses, which is where we're at today.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
wil421 10y ago
How does she barely make minimum wage as a speech therapist? My mother worked in the school system for 20 years making nothing. Now works in skilled nursing, people that just had strokes and other trauma learning to speak, eat, or breathe correctly again. She makes around 80k and regularly picks up side jobs at other facilities for $50+ an hour. I have another friend from college who works in a hospital and makes 70-80k. Although there isn't much increase over the years in a hospital. Just curious because I'm familiar with the field. Are things different in Europe?

toomuchtodo 10y ago

How much do you think it'd cost to replicate the software as an open source tool? I've written grants before for funding open source projects, and this anecdote boils my blood.

soperj 10y ago
Yeah, this is just plain thievery from people who can least afford it.
japhyr 10y ago
Can you say a bit more about the process of writing grants for open source projects? I have some long-term education related projects that I'm considering grant funding to support. I have some ideas how to go about it, but I'd love to hear what you've done.
safeignorance 10y ago
Taking on Pearson and other companies that use similarly predatory tactics to extract value from society's most disadvantaged is exactly the sort of "disruption" that the world needs more of. That said, I doubt one could go at it alone with no support or with only a grant -- building up mind share, fighting off BS patent threats, and doing enough sales to break even on these non-development costs aren't the sort of things that a government/ngo grant will typically support. And even if you could find the money, you'll still need access to a network of experts. Someone should setup a fund that force-multiplies government/NGO grants for societally beneifical OSS with funding and access to expertise for these other things (legal/marketing/etc.). The aim could just be breaking even on non-grant-funded costs by selling support/branding/etc. to institutional players like hospitals and large chains.
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  Agree re: disruption. I've thought about this type of thing a lot, and I wish there was a way to fix the root cause instead of what I consider the symptom (dodgy overpriced software for a specific niche, especially when it targets non-technical users and/or has to do with medicine / HELPING HUMANS PHYSICALLY). I came to the conclusion that it's Very Hard to disincentivize greed. Anyone have any ideas for what could be done to help curb behavior like this by companies (companies which are really just people who are making these kinds of decisions -- never forget that)?
  - evincarofautumn 10y ago
    I’m not sure there’s any overt greed exactly. A company saw a market and launched a product for that market. But like most companies and products, especially in the case of a de facto monopoly, they’re not very good. When there’s no competition, why spend the money to innovate or improve? Your customers are still going to buy your shit. The best way to improve the status quo on a case-by-case basis is to introduce competition, say by developing a better product, marketing it well, and basically out-predating the theretofore market predators. The marketing is easy if you can get enough momentum behind it: “FooCorp wants to sell you these materials for $absurd. We made these better alternative materials. You can print the basic set yourself for free, or order any of our wide, high-quality selection, starting from $reasonable.” I don’t think there is a general solution to the underlying cause, though.
  - ashitlerferad 10y ago
    Competition from the open source world perhaps.
- rexpop 10y ago
  Realistically, what kind of skillsets, experience and understanding would be required to setup and operate such a fund?
- TrevorJ 10y ago
  Sounds like something Ycombinator should look at soliciting startups for.
DoubleGlazing 10y ago
Its really simple software, essentially a VU meter. The therapy involves getting patients to shout in a certain way and try and reach certain volume levels or follow certain volume patterns. E.g. shout gently for five seconds and gradually ramp up the volume over 10 seconds. It would be really easy to replicate. I reckon the most time consuming part would be testing and calibration. The whole app directory is less than 2MB.
- emmelaich 10y ago
  Seems like a audio program like Audacity or maybe Ardour would do the job.
- thirdsun 10y ago
  Really, any audio editor would do. But you should look into Max/MSP ( https://cycling74.com/products/max/ https://cycling74.com/products/max/ ), where you could build and bundle a simple audio app like that in minutes and have it tailored to your specific needs.
imglorp 10y ago
Another business that does this is the hearing aid racket. An audiologist examines a patient, comes up with a patient's profile (some kind of EQ / convolution map), and then loads that into the hearing aid using proprietary programming cable and software. There are other settings more under the preferences category than DSP, like what profiles go on what switch setting, beeps, things like that. But these are all guarded jealously. The aids are very expensive, more than $5k, for what's now ancient tech. They've only recently gotten BT and only then at the high end, more like $8k for the BT models. We really need open hardware and software, so home users can get an audiologist to compute their profile and then do what they want with it.
- frostburg 10y ago
  I wonder how different the hearing aids are from a custom IEM designed for live performances... That market is vastly more competitive.
  - imglorp 10y ago
    As I understand it, the audiologist prescription includes an EQ map as well as few different types of filters for different situations: music, conversation in crowded room, 1:1 conversation, etc. Hearing impairments are not totally amplitude dips but also comprehension ones. SO I suspect aids have a few extra DSP filters available to the programmer that IEM's don't, while IEM's probably have wider range and better reproduction for the musician's taste.
- rosege 10y ago
  Yes you are right, this sector is full of scam artists. See here http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/2014-11-30/5920176 http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbrief... My father who is in the age group now pretty much confirmed all of this when recently shopping for one. As it was covered by his health care they were trying to flog him one at a ridiculous price.
- evincarofautumn 10y ago
  I saw this kind of predation secondhand when my maternal grandmother (I know her as “babcia”) went in for hearing aids. Her main problem was actually earwax buildup, not general hearing loss. But there’s no money in giving a patient a script for ear drops, so they managed to convince her to drop thousands in insurance dollars and no small amount of her personal dollars as well. <sigh> But, she can hear, and she’s happy. I guess that’s how these companies get away with it—you can satisfy a customer without doing a whole lot of actual good for them.
davb 10y ago
> I've written grants before for funding open source projects Is this a common thing? I would absolutely love to be funded to work on a bespoke open source project for such a good cause.

Paul-ish 10y ago

Could a professional organization of speech therapist come together and fund a competitor? Obviously you would need to deal with the free rider problem somehow.

niij 10y ago
The "free rider" problem has been solved. Unfortunately the solution is to have ruthless for-profit businesses, which is where we're at today.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

wil421 10y ago

How does she barely make minimum wage as a speech therapist? My mother worked in the school system for 20 years making nothing. Now works in skilled nursing, people that just had strokes and other trauma learning to speak, eat, or breathe correctly again. She makes around 80k and regularly picks up side jobs at other facilities for $50+ an hour. I have another friend from college who works in a hospital and makes 70-80k. Although there isn't much increase over the years in a hospital. Just curious because I'm familiar with the field. Are things different in Europe?