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But if this suit is successful, it would mean that Section 1201 violates your First Amendment rights which in turn means that EULA also violates your First Amen

But if this suit is successful, it would mean that Section 1201 violates your First Amendment rights which in turn means that EULA also violates your First Amendment rights.

richardwhiuk 10y ago
No. The First Amendment limits what the government can do to restrict your right to free speech. The DMCA, and Section 1201, is the Government limiting the power of freedom of speech, and so the First Amendment is applicable. By signing a EULA, you are accepting a limitation of your freedom of speech and (along with other factors - e.g. money) gaining some compromise instead (a car). That's not First Amendment territory in the same way that moderation of an online forum isn't. The First Amendment prevents laws being made, not contracts being signed. It means it's not illegal, not that it isn't a breach of contract. (IANAL - Obligatory XKCD https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/)
- Svenskunganka 10y ago
  Ah, thank you for clarifying! I'm not a US citizen so I don't know much about the US-specific rights and laws.
runjake 10y ago
The First Amendment guarantees rights to citizens in the eyes of the US federal government. The EULA is an agreement between a citizen and a corporation, and thus the First Amendment does not apply.
onetwotree 10y ago
Under American contract law you can sign away any of your constitutional rights. Be careful what you put your magic squiggles on.
- jedberg 10y ago
  Sort of. We can't make a contract to do something that would otherwise be illegal. A very simple example is that I cannot put into a rental lease that I can evict a tenant in 5 days. That would be in conflict with the law that says I must go through a 30 day process. Even if I put it in a contract and you sign it, you can still sue me for not going through the 30 day process.
  - onetwotree 10y ago
    Right, there are laws that govern certain types of contracts. I think the problem there is that a lease is regulated, rather than contracts in general. As a counter example, the contracts that members of sober living houses sign indicate that they can be expelled for relapse without going through a formal eviction process. These contracts are governed by a different federal law (the 1988 amendment to the federal fair housing act, IIRC).
- bdhess 10y ago
  Not necessarily, if the contract can later be found to be unconscionable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability
- sib 10y ago
  Not true: for example, you can't sign a contract that makes you a slave.

But if this suit is successful, it would mean that Section 1201 violates your First Amendment rights which in turn means that EULA also violates your First Amendment rights.

richardwhiuk 10y ago

No. The First Amendment limits what the government can do to restrict your right to free speech. The DMCA, and Section 1201, is the Government limiting the power of freedom of speech, and so the First Amendment is applicable. By signing a EULA, you are accepting a limitation of your freedom of speech and (along with other factors - e.g. money) gaining some compromise instead (a car). That's not First Amendment territory in the same way that moderation of an online forum isn't. The First Amendment prevents laws being made, not contracts being signed. It means it's not illegal, not that it isn't a breach of contract. (IANAL - Obligatory XKCD https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/)

Svenskunganka 10y ago
Ah, thank you for clarifying! I'm not a US citizen so I don't know much about the US-specific rights and laws.

runjake 10y ago

The First Amendment guarantees rights to citizens in the eyes of the US federal government. The EULA is an agreement between a citizen and a corporation, and thus the First Amendment does not apply.

onetwotree 10y ago

Under American contract law you can sign away any of your constitutional rights. Be careful what you put your magic squiggles on.

jedberg 10y ago
Sort of. We can't make a contract to do something that would otherwise be illegal. A very simple example is that I cannot put into a rental lease that I can evict a tenant in 5 days. That would be in conflict with the law that says I must go through a 30 day process. Even if I put it in a contract and you sign it, you can still sue me for not going through the 30 day process.
- onetwotree 10y ago
  Right, there are laws that govern certain types of contracts. I think the problem there is that a lease is regulated, rather than contracts in general. As a counter example, the contracts that members of sober living houses sign indicate that they can be expelled for relapse without going through a formal eviction process. These contracts are governed by a different federal law (the 1988 amendment to the federal fair housing act, IIRC).
bdhess 10y ago
Not necessarily, if the contract can later be found to be unconscionable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability
sib 10y ago
Not true: for example, you can't sign a contract that makes you a slave.