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"He's probably crazy to be trying it in Vermont though," is an understatement. The largest city in Vermont, Burlington, only has a population of ~40,000. He's p

"He's probably crazy to be trying it in Vermont though," is an understatement. The largest city in Vermont, Burlington, only has a population of ~40,000. He's proposing a city half the size of Burlington in the middle of fucking nowhere. Vermonters are VERY resistant to people trying to change their landscape or way of life, and as you might expect, they (myself included) are not thrilled with this plan.

sevensor 10y ago
I think you can take consolation in the fact that it's going to be very hard to convince 20,000 people to pull up stakes and move to the middle of nowhere to tend crops and extract mineral resources. Or even to convince the church hierarchy to dispatch 20,000 Mormons to the middle of nowhere, assuming they could do that. (I don't know enough about Mormons to say whether this is possible.)
- calebhicks 10y ago
  This venture has nothing to do with the Mormon (LDS) Church other than the fact this guy is a member. The leadership of the Church will not acknowledge or encourage the project in any official capacity, and will definitely not 'dispatch' members to live there. The only exception being if there are actually 20k people, there may be a single pair of missionaries assigned to visit every now and then.
  - clavalle 10y ago
    >This venture has nothing to do with the Mormon (LDS) Church other than the fact this guy is a member. That's the story, but in the same breath he says: 'A plat, says Hall, will be subject to state and regional laws, but will also be overseen by a board and heirachries of leaders with, it appears, strong Mormon Family values.' That's not exactly nothing.
- closed 10y ago
  > convince the church hierarchy to dispatch 20,000 Mormons to the middle of nowhere, assuming they could do that. It's interesting, Mormonism originally encouraged its members to move to a central place, but around 1950 then prophet (i.e. leader) David O. McKay told people it was fine to remain at home [1]. There are some interesting pockets out there as a result of this "gathering attitude", though, like (AFAIK) a fairly substantial group of Polynesian Mormons in and around Independence, Missouri (a key area in Mormon theology)[2]. [1] https://www.lds.org/manual/presidents-of-the-church-student-manual/david-o-mckay-ninth-president-of-the-church?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/manual/presidents-of-the-church-student-... (search the term "where they live" in the article) [2] https://www.lds.org/ensign/1979/06/saints-in-independence?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/ensign/1979/06/saints-in-independence?la...
- brianbarker 10y ago
  It may not be that hard. Mormons believe jesus is coming again and will arrive at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-ondi-Ahman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-ondi-Ahman. Some people have been buying land there for this reason. Joseph's Smith's communal utopia, finally realized? Oh yeah, there are people who will go for this. Edit: As for farming, yes mormons will be fine with it. Google "mormon food storage" and you'll be amazed. They are taught to be ready for disasters at all times.
JoeAltmaier 10y ago
So if its nowhere, what's the resistance about? Vermonters want to do whatever the hell they want on their own land. But not this guy? He's got to do what Vermonters want? I never figured out what that's all about.
- snsr 10y ago
  Vermonters also care about the environmental, social and fiscal consequences of major development projects in the state. http://dec.vermont.gov/sites/dec/files/permit-handbook/sheet47.pdf http://dec.vermont.gov/sites/dec/files/permit-handbook/sheet... I imagine most resistance to this scheme is based in pragmatism. What's being discussed is essentially a paternalistic, religious company town. There is no way that a development of this size will be in any way self-sustaining; it will have significant impacts on the local infrastructure, culture and environment.
- cschmidt 10y ago
  Vermonters seem resistant to change, no matter what. They like thinks just the way they have always been.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    > They like thinks just the way they have always been. Such a meta typo. So often, when people want things the same way they've always been[1], that means they want people to think the same way they always have[1], which they don't (because the new generation never does). 1: "always" generally being a short 10-20 year period the person vaguely remembers from their youth, but fondly, because they didn't have much responsibility as they were young and didn't actually have to pay much attention to anything outside their limited social circle.
    - fish2000 10y ago
      The hazy miasma visions of a perfect past can legitimatize themselves, in some, with far far less than 10 to 20 years. Some can do it in a span of weeks – q.v. “Where I Was From,” the memoir by Joan Didion (which specifically is about California, but is quite relevant to these topics to anyone most anywhere in the USA).
cylinder 10y ago
I thought you people are all about freedom, independence, and property rights.
- susurrus 10y ago
  You were thinking about our Live Free or Die neighbors in New Hampshire.

sevensor 10y ago

I think you can take consolation in the fact that it's going to be very hard to convince 20,000 people to pull up stakes and move to the middle of nowhere to tend crops and extract mineral resources. Or even to convince the church hierarchy to dispatch 20,000 Mormons to the middle of nowhere, assuming they could do that. (I don't know enough about Mormons to say whether this is possible.)

calebhicks 10y ago
This venture has nothing to do with the Mormon (LDS) Church other than the fact this guy is a member. The leadership of the Church will not acknowledge or encourage the project in any official capacity, and will definitely not 'dispatch' members to live there. The only exception being if there are actually 20k people, there may be a single pair of missionaries assigned to visit every now and then.
- clavalle 10y ago
  >This venture has nothing to do with the Mormon (LDS) Church other than the fact this guy is a member. That's the story, but in the same breath he says: 'A plat, says Hall, will be subject to state and regional laws, but will also be overseen by a board and heirachries of leaders with, it appears, strong Mormon Family values.' That's not exactly nothing.
closed 10y ago
> convince the church hierarchy to dispatch 20,000 Mormons to the middle of nowhere, assuming they could do that. It's interesting, Mormonism originally encouraged its members to move to a central place, but around 1950 then prophet (i.e. leader) David O. McKay told people it was fine to remain at home [1]. There are some interesting pockets out there as a result of this "gathering attitude", though, like (AFAIK) a fairly substantial group of Polynesian Mormons in and around Independence, Missouri (a key area in Mormon theology)[2]. [1] https://www.lds.org/manual/presidents-of-the-church-student-manual/david-o-mckay-ninth-president-of-the-church?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/manual/presidents-of-the-church-student-... (search the term "where they live" in the article) [2] https://www.lds.org/ensign/1979/06/saints-in-independence?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/ensign/1979/06/saints-in-independence?la...
brianbarker 10y ago
It may not be that hard. Mormons believe jesus is coming again and will arrive at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-ondi-Ahman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-ondi-Ahman. Some people have been buying land there for this reason. Joseph's Smith's communal utopia, finally realized? Oh yeah, there are people who will go for this. Edit: As for farming, yes mormons will be fine with it. Google "mormon food storage" and you'll be amazed. They are taught to be ready for disasters at all times.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

So if its nowhere, what's the resistance about? Vermonters want to do whatever the hell they want on their own land. But not this guy? He's got to do what Vermonters want? I never figured out what that's all about.

snsr 10y ago
Vermonters also care about the environmental, social and fiscal consequences of major development projects in the state. http://dec.vermont.gov/sites/dec/files/permit-handbook/sheet47.pdf http://dec.vermont.gov/sites/dec/files/permit-handbook/sheet... I imagine most resistance to this scheme is based in pragmatism. What's being discussed is essentially a paternalistic, religious company town. There is no way that a development of this size will be in any way self-sustaining; it will have significant impacts on the local infrastructure, culture and environment.
cschmidt 10y ago
Vermonters seem resistant to change, no matter what. They like thinks just the way they have always been.
- kbenson 10y ago
  > They like thinks just the way they have always been. Such a meta typo. So often, when people want things the same way they've always been[1], that means they want people to think the same way they always have[1], which they don't (because the new generation never does). 1: "always" generally being a short 10-20 year period the person vaguely remembers from their youth, but fondly, because they didn't have much responsibility as they were young and didn't actually have to pay much attention to anything outside their limited social circle.
  - fish2000 10y ago
    The hazy miasma visions of a perfect past can legitimatize themselves, in some, with far far less than 10 to 20 years. Some can do it in a span of weeks – q.v. “Where I Was From,” the memoir by Joan Didion (which specifically is about California, but is quite relevant to these topics to anyone most anywhere in the USA).

cylinder 10y ago

I thought you people are all about freedom, independence, and property rights.

susurrus 10y ago
You were thinking about our Live Free or Die neighbors in New Hampshire.