6 ms·

Don't try and establish yourself in the tech industry outside of a tech hub.

ghaff 10y ago
Do you seriously believe that glib statement? That if you don't move to the Bay area or a reasonable image of it you might as well become a fast food worker or whatever? Yes, there are certain advantages to industry job density but I actually find it rather bad advice to frame a career in tech as inherently depending upon living in a half-dozen or so cities--that can't begin to accommodate everyone.
- zappo2938 10y ago
  Yes, I strongly believe that if a person is starting in tech and not established with a reputation, they should move to a tech hub. It seems like a lot of people are going to downvote my opinion, however, I am sure that each and every person who does downvote this opinion lived in or near a tech hub when they started.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    I suppose it partly depends on how broadly you define "tech hub." If that includes 20-30 places worldwide, I'm not going to violently disagree. If it means Bay Area + Portland + Seattle + ...? Then I will. Especially because "tech" isn't limited to web/social/mobile.
    - zappo2938 10y ago
      If you want to work on a yacht, you have to move to Fort Lauderdale until you are established. There is no way around it. You can be a doctor anywhere, but if you are going to do medical research you have to be in New Orleans, New York Boston, DC / Maryland, or Chicago, maybe the Cleveland Clinic. If you are Marine Biologist you are living in Woods Hole, Monterey, or La Jolla. If you are doing aerospace engineering you are going to be living in Virginia, Southern California, or Washington. It is stupid to think that someone who wants to do 'web/social/mobile' can get a decent start outside of a place without lots of other people doing it. I don't think that there is anyone on Hacker News who can say they succeeded getting their start in the industry outside of a 'software' tech hub. If someone wants to be a serious software engineer they are going to have to commit to living in SF, DC, Boston, Austin, or Portland at some point in the beginning. It is disingenuous to tell people who are starting it is otherwise. Part of the commitment of being a software engineer is living in a place with lots of other software engineers for a little while. It is not fair to anyone starting out to say they don't have to move to where there is a lot of activity. It is so unfair.
      - mac01021 10y ago
        > Part of the commitment of being a software engineer is living in a place with lots of other software engineers for a little while. Why? I am a professional software engineer with a job that involves working with the some of the latest trendy tools for building distributed systems (Kafka, Zookeeper, etc). But I've never lived in a tech hub.
      - vonmoltke 10y ago
        > If you want to work on a yacht, you have to move to Fort Lauderdale until you are established. No you don't. Marina Mile may have the highest density of yacht builders and dealers in the country, but it is far from the only place. Plus, yachts are a pretty small subset of boatbuilding, which goes on in all coastal areas. > You can be a doctor anywhere, but if you are going to do medical research you have to be in New Orleans, New York Boston, DC / Maryland, or Chicago, maybe the Cleveland Clinic. Dallas, Houston, Miami, and Memphis would like a word with you. > If you are doing aerospace engineering you are going to be living in Virginia, Southern California, or Washington. Dallas, Boston, St. Louis, Tuscon, Atlanta, Denver, and Melbourne would like a word with you. > It is stupid to think that someone who wants to do 'web/social/mobile' can get a decent start outside of a place without lots of other people doing it. First, it is stupid to think there do not exist a whole lot places with "lots" of people doing web/social/mobile. Second, it is stupid to think web/social/mobile defines the tech industry. I have spent 14 years as an electrical, systems, and software engineer. I have never worked in that segment, and don't plan on it. > I don't think that there is anyone on Hacker News who can say they succeeded getting their start in the industry outside of a 'software' tech hub. "software" != "web/social/mobile" Plus, despite the slightly hyperbolic way I sometimes bitch about my career path, I have spent my entire career in Dallas, and if I could learn to stomach either going back to the defense industry or jumping to enterprise development I could spend my entire career here. > If someone wants to be a serious software engineer they are going to have to commit to living in SF, DC, Boston, Austin, or Portland at some point in the beginning. It is disingenuous to tell people who are starting it is otherwise. Part of the commitment of being a software engineer is living in a place with lots of other software engineers for a little while. That is ridiculous, unless you define "serious software engineer" in a circular fashion such that one, by definition, needs to. Then your definition would be ridiculous. > It is not fair to anyone starting out to say they don't have to move to where there is a lot of activity. It is so unfair. No, it is not fair to anyone starting out to tell them that they must get their first job in one of the self-described software meccas and that they are a failure if they don't.
  - ceit 10y ago
    That's a really obnoxious viewpoint. I guess if your idea of the tech industry is only google, facebook, etc then okay. You've cut off more than half of the industry in favor of the big companies and vaporous startups though. You can easily make nearly as much with a way cheaper cost of living elsewhere fam.
  - dionidium 10y ago
    I can give my personal take on working as a software developer in St. Louis. Ten years ago, it was pretty hard to find cutting-edge work. Developers here usually went to work writing code for Boeing or AT&T or Edward Jones, etc. (I worked for AT&T.) But that's an outdated view of the world. I now work for a medium-sized software company. I have multiple friends here who work at little web/mobile consultancies. There is even a smallish startup scene and an incubator [0]. Obviously, it's not on the scale of New York or Boston or SF, but it's large enough to render your comment absurd. [0] http://www.downtowntrex.org/ http://www.downtowntrex.org/

ghaff 10y ago

Do you seriously believe that glib statement? That if you don't move to the Bay area or a reasonable image of it you might as well become a fast food worker or whatever? Yes, there are certain advantages to industry job density but I actually find it rather bad advice to frame a career in tech as inherently depending upon living in a half-dozen or so cities--that can't begin to accommodate everyone.

zappo2938 10y ago
Yes, I strongly believe that if a person is starting in tech and not established with a reputation, they should move to a tech hub. It seems like a lot of people are going to downvote my opinion, however, I am sure that each and every person who does downvote this opinion lived in or near a tech hub when they started.
- ghaff 10y ago
  I suppose it partly depends on how broadly you define "tech hub." If that includes 20-30 places worldwide, I'm not going to violently disagree. If it means Bay Area + Portland + Seattle + ...? Then I will. Especially because "tech" isn't limited to web/social/mobile.
  - zappo2938 10y ago
    If you want to work on a yacht, you have to move to Fort Lauderdale until you are established. There is no way around it. You can be a doctor anywhere, but if you are going to do medical research you have to be in New Orleans, New York Boston, DC / Maryland, or Chicago, maybe the Cleveland Clinic. If you are Marine Biologist you are living in Woods Hole, Monterey, or La Jolla. If you are doing aerospace engineering you are going to be living in Virginia, Southern California, or Washington. It is stupid to think that someone who wants to do 'web/social/mobile' can get a decent start outside of a place without lots of other people doing it. I don't think that there is anyone on Hacker News who can say they succeeded getting their start in the industry outside of a 'software' tech hub. If someone wants to be a serious software engineer they are going to have to commit to living in SF, DC, Boston, Austin, or Portland at some point in the beginning. It is disingenuous to tell people who are starting it is otherwise. Part of the commitment of being a software engineer is living in a place with lots of other software engineers for a little while. It is not fair to anyone starting out to say they don't have to move to where there is a lot of activity. It is so unfair.
    - mac01021 10y ago
      > Part of the commitment of being a software engineer is living in a place with lots of other software engineers for a little while. Why? I am a professional software engineer with a job that involves working with the some of the latest trendy tools for building distributed systems (Kafka, Zookeeper, etc). But I've never lived in a tech hub.
    - vonmoltke 10y ago
      > If you want to work on a yacht, you have to move to Fort Lauderdale until you are established. No you don't. Marina Mile may have the highest density of yacht builders and dealers in the country, but it is far from the only place. Plus, yachts are a pretty small subset of boatbuilding, which goes on in all coastal areas. > You can be a doctor anywhere, but if you are going to do medical research you have to be in New Orleans, New York Boston, DC / Maryland, or Chicago, maybe the Cleveland Clinic. Dallas, Houston, Miami, and Memphis would like a word with you. > If you are doing aerospace engineering you are going to be living in Virginia, Southern California, or Washington. Dallas, Boston, St. Louis, Tuscon, Atlanta, Denver, and Melbourne would like a word with you. > It is stupid to think that someone who wants to do 'web/social/mobile' can get a decent start outside of a place without lots of other people doing it. First, it is stupid to think there do not exist a whole lot places with "lots" of people doing web/social/mobile. Second, it is stupid to think web/social/mobile defines the tech industry. I have spent 14 years as an electrical, systems, and software engineer. I have never worked in that segment, and don't plan on it. > I don't think that there is anyone on Hacker News who can say they succeeded getting their start in the industry outside of a 'software' tech hub. "software" != "web/social/mobile" Plus, despite the slightly hyperbolic way I sometimes bitch about my career path, I have spent my entire career in Dallas, and if I could learn to stomach either going back to the defense industry or jumping to enterprise development I could spend my entire career here. > If someone wants to be a serious software engineer they are going to have to commit to living in SF, DC, Boston, Austin, or Portland at some point in the beginning. It is disingenuous to tell people who are starting it is otherwise. Part of the commitment of being a software engineer is living in a place with lots of other software engineers for a little while. That is ridiculous, unless you define "serious software engineer" in a circular fashion such that one, by definition, needs to. Then your definition would be ridiculous. > It is not fair to anyone starting out to say they don't have to move to where there is a lot of activity. It is so unfair. No, it is not fair to anyone starting out to tell them that they must get their first job in one of the self-described software meccas and that they are a failure if they don't.
- ceit 10y ago
  That's a really obnoxious viewpoint. I guess if your idea of the tech industry is only google, facebook, etc then okay. You've cut off more than half of the industry in favor of the big companies and vaporous startups though. You can easily make nearly as much with a way cheaper cost of living elsewhere fam.
- dionidium 10y ago
  I can give my personal take on working as a software developer in St. Louis. Ten years ago, it was pretty hard to find cutting-edge work. Developers here usually went to work writing code for Boeing or AT&T or Edward Jones, etc. (I worked for AT&T.) But that's an outdated view of the world. I now work for a medium-sized software company. I have multiple friends here who work at little web/mobile consultancies. There is even a smallish startup scene and an incubator [0]. Obviously, it's not on the scale of New York or Boston or SF, but it's large enough to render your comment absurd. [0] http://www.downtowntrex.org/ http://www.downtowntrex.org/