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There are ways to "launder" the payments. Could use JoinMarket to tumble the funds to a decent extent. Could also send the BTC to shapeshift.io and convert it

There are ways to "launder" the payments. Could use JoinMarket to tumble the funds to a decent extent. Could also send the BTC to shapeshift.io and convert it to Monero and then convert it back to Bitcoin at xmr.to. I am really shocked they had an advertiser pay to a bank account, especially one in the owners name. It's a huge OpSec mistake.

cookiecaper 10y ago
While this comment and its siblings do mention methods that can, in theory, be used to launder bitcoin, it's still really difficult to do it correctly. People vastly overestimate the privacy benefits of bitcoin. In many practical cases, bitcoin is probably one of the least private ways to get payment; every transaction is publicly recorded and can easily be traced through the blockchain without subpoena, warrant, social engineering, or any justification whatsoever. This is a treasure trove for law enforcement and will likely allow them to find criminals that never would've otherwise appeared on their radar. Some tumblers are honeypots and many are scams that will skim the top off your btc while barely doing anything to your coins' "taint" rating. Even if one's understanding of bitcoin and practice of opsec is impeccable, there is still the need to worry about trading partners out to the nth degree; one weak link somewhere in the chain may very well lead back to an otherwise-meticulous user. One also must worry about getting discovered through some other means, like getting a computer booked into evidence and having the bitcoin wallet found and a legal order entered compelling its decryption. If law enforcement finds out someone unsuccessfully engaged in an attempt to conceal their possession of bitcoin, that person is adding years to a potential prison sentence with conspiracy charges, money laundering, tax evasion, etc. Bitcoin is awesome for everyday use. Anyone who wants to use it for "underground" endeavors needs to do some serious homework, and not just plunge in believing "it's anonymous currency" or "it's anonymous as long as I send my coin to a tumbler after getting it".
- dmix 10y ago
  > This is a treasure trove for law enforcement and will likely allow them to find criminals that never would've otherwise appeared on their radar. If this was the case then why has it never been used as a means to catch someone so far? There have been hundreds of darknet related arrests and none have been related to bitcoin. Pretty much every other investigative means is easier than tracking down bitcoin like that.
  - aerovistae 10y ago
    Give it time. Bitcoin's still pretty new. I don't think law enforcement is quite on top of it yet, if I had to guess.
seesomesense 10y ago
I have a professional acquaintance ( my profession, not his) in the anti-moneylaundering division of a large national, non-US bank. He mentioned that their default assumption is that if an account or a transaction involves bitcoin, it is connected to criminals. They log the details and pass it on to the appropriate law enforcement agency.
- jjnoakes 10y ago
  The same thing happens where I work (a restaurant). One of my professional acquaintances assumes that if meal preparation involves a knife, it is connected to a murder. He writes down the wielder, date, and time, and sends the information to the police each day.
  - DyslexicAtheist 10y ago
    :D if I could upvote twice I would
  - milesokeefe 10y ago
    Was it a very niche brand of knife that is the nearly exclusive choice of criminals?
    - jjnoakes 10y ago
      Yes, it was. And don't confuse "nearly exclusive choice of criminals" with "only criminals choose it". After all, cars are the nearly exclusive choice of bank robbers for getaways. But I don't think you are suggesting that every person driving in a car away from a bank should be documented and reported to the authorities.
      - milesokeefe 10y ago
        No I'm not meaning to imply that anyone should assume someone using BTC is a criminal. However it's not irrational to pay closer attention to them. I do think reporting every single BTC user to a three letter agency is pushing it though. I would understand doing that for accounts that raise red flags beyond simply using BTC, but doing that for every single one seems a bit paranoid and ineffective anyways.

cookiecaper 10y ago

While this comment and its siblings do mention methods that can, in theory, be used to launder bitcoin, it's still really difficult to do it correctly. People vastly overestimate the privacy benefits of bitcoin. In many practical cases, bitcoin is probably one of the least private ways to get payment; every transaction is publicly recorded and can easily be traced through the blockchain without subpoena, warrant, social engineering, or any justification whatsoever. This is a treasure trove for law enforcement and will likely allow them to find criminals that never would've otherwise appeared on their radar. Some tumblers are honeypots and many are scams that will skim the top off your btc while barely doing anything to your coins' "taint" rating. Even if one's understanding of bitcoin and practice of opsec is impeccable, there is still the need to worry about trading partners out to the nth degree; one weak link somewhere in the chain may very well lead back to an otherwise-meticulous user. One also must worry about getting discovered through some other means, like getting a computer booked into evidence and having the bitcoin wallet found and a legal order entered compelling its decryption. If law enforcement finds out someone unsuccessfully engaged in an attempt to conceal their possession of bitcoin, that person is adding years to a potential prison sentence with conspiracy charges, money laundering, tax evasion, etc. Bitcoin is awesome for everyday use. Anyone who wants to use it for "underground" endeavors needs to do some serious homework, and not just plunge in believing "it's anonymous currency" or "it's anonymous as long as I send my coin to a tumbler after getting it".

dmix 10y ago
> This is a treasure trove for law enforcement and will likely allow them to find criminals that never would've otherwise appeared on their radar. If this was the case then why has it never been used as a means to catch someone so far? There have been hundreds of darknet related arrests and none have been related to bitcoin. Pretty much every other investigative means is easier than tracking down bitcoin like that.
- aerovistae 10y ago
  Give it time. Bitcoin's still pretty new. I don't think law enforcement is quite on top of it yet, if I had to guess.

seesomesense 10y ago

I have a professional acquaintance ( my profession, not his) in the anti-moneylaundering division of a large national, non-US bank. He mentioned that their default assumption is that if an account or a transaction involves bitcoin, it is connected to criminals. They log the details and pass it on to the appropriate law enforcement agency.

jjnoakes 10y ago
The same thing happens where I work (a restaurant). One of my professional acquaintances assumes that if meal preparation involves a knife, it is connected to a murder. He writes down the wielder, date, and time, and sends the information to the police each day.
- DyslexicAtheist 10y ago
  :D if I could upvote twice I would
- milesokeefe 10y ago
  Was it a very niche brand of knife that is the nearly exclusive choice of criminals?
  - jjnoakes 10y ago
    Yes, it was. And don't confuse "nearly exclusive choice of criminals" with "only criminals choose it". After all, cars are the nearly exclusive choice of bank robbers for getaways. But I don't think you are suggesting that every person driving in a car away from a bank should be documented and reported to the authorities.
    - milesokeefe 10y ago
      No I'm not meaning to imply that anyone should assume someone using BTC is a criminal. However it's not irrational to pay closer attention to them. I do think reporting every single BTC user to a three letter agency is pushing it though. I would understand doing that for accounts that raise red flags beyond simply using BTC, but doing that for every single one seems a bit paranoid and ineffective anyways.