3 ms·

Yes, but you seem to be arguing that that cruft is good. If not, than I really don't see where we disagree.

stcredzero 10y ago
Yes, but you seem to be arguing that that cruft is good. Arrgh, NO! I'm saying cruft is bad! You're taking something that's good in one context, then naively trying to use it in a different one, mistakenly thinking it will have the same goodness. Analogous errors: taking a crop from one environment, then expecting it to grow well in a different one. Doesn't always work. A clever saying from one social context might bomb in another.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Oh. Sorry. You misread my comment. Yes, I know what it says, and in retrospect, I should have been clearer. After doing a bit of simple Java programming for a bit, I thought it was okay, if a bit verbose. A while later I looked into how to start with Android development, which is what I really wanted to get into. I had seen some of the hate spewed at java, and had been having some frustrations with it myself, and was starting to feel a little unsure about the language. Little did I know... The first few lines of the Android tutorial were, "copy-paste about 20-30 lines of code, and then type a few more. This should get you a button in the middle of the screen that says "hello world." This is the moment when I gave up on Java. Because that wasn't me, tossing my warped ideas, taken from other languages at the thing. These were professionals, who wrote an API, and clearly thought that this level of boilerplate was acceptable, nay, necessary. If it takes 20+ lines to instatiate a simple component, and have it say, "hello world," than how do you write applications in this thing? In JS, I could've been done in less than 5 lines (android uses an interface builder, so the comparison isn't unqualified). In TCL, this is maybe two lines. In C, maybe the program would have been comparable, but in C, you have to malloc and instantiate objects that the library and runtime take care of for you in java. There is no excuse. The fact that Java didn't have lambdas, still lacks many common features from higher level languages, and locks you an an OO straitjacket is irritating for me sometimes, but understandable. The verbosity, on the otherhand, is unneccessary, unusable, and unacceptable. Reasonable people may disagree.

Yes, but you seem to be arguing that that cruft is good. Arrgh, NO! I'm saying cruft is bad! You're taking something that's good in one context, then naively trying to use it in a different one, mistakenly thinking it will have the same goodness. Analogous errors: taking a crop from one environment, then expecting it to grow well in a different one. Doesn't always work. A clever saying from one social context might bomb in another.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Oh. Sorry. You misread my comment. Yes, I know what it says, and in retrospect, I should have been clearer. After doing a bit of simple Java programming for a bit, I thought it was okay, if a bit verbose. A while later I looked into how to start with Android development, which is what I really wanted to get into. I had seen some of the hate spewed at java, and had been having some frustrations with it myself, and was starting to feel a little unsure about the language. Little did I know... The first few lines of the Android tutorial were, "copy-paste about 20-30 lines of code, and then type a few more. This should get you a button in the middle of the screen that says "hello world." This is the moment when I gave up on Java. Because that wasn't me, tossing my warped ideas, taken from other languages at the thing. These were professionals, who wrote an API, and clearly thought that this level of boilerplate was acceptable, nay, necessary. If it takes 20+ lines to instatiate a simple component, and have it say, "hello world," than how do you write applications in this thing? In JS, I could've been done in less than 5 lines (android uses an interface builder, so the comparison isn't unqualified). In TCL, this is maybe two lines. In C, maybe the program would have been comparable, but in C, you have to malloc and instantiate objects that the library and runtime take care of for you in java. There is no excuse. The fact that Java didn't have lambdas, still lacks many common features from higher level languages, and locks you an an OO straitjacket is irritating for me sometimes, but understandable. The verbosity, on the otherhand, is unneccessary, unusable, and unacceptable. Reasonable people may disagree.