6 ms·

You had colleagues who didn't want to hire someone just because they were "working class"??? Seriously? Were these colleagues a bunch of fedora-wearing hipste

You had colleagues who didn't want to hire someone just because they were "working class"??? Seriously? Were these colleagues a bunch of fedora-wearing hipsters or something?

busterarm 10y ago
I would actually argue that classism is far and away the worst problem in this industry. It just plays out in ways that you don't expect. Hiring mostly grads from top schools is exactly that. In my circle are a lot of junior and fresh out of school developers and one guy I know who killed it in his interview was ultimately not hired and told it was because he didn't "look like a developer". He dressed in normal business casual attire. Another friend of mine who is a significantly worse developer interviewed (and struggled through his interview) for the same job and ultimately was hired because he fit in with their hoodie-wearing, ping-pong-playing frat-bro, drink every day at 4pm culture. There's a fine line between "culture fit" and "cultural homogeny". Fortunately I know that hiring a diverse team is the best way to cultivate a strong team.
- gadlfy 10y ago
  I don't know — ageism?
  - busterarm 10y ago
    Yeah, that too.
- pmiller2 10y ago
  > hoodie-wearing, ping-pong-playing frat-bro, drink every day at 4pm culture. A lot of people, including myself, would be glad to be excluded from such a place. I don't wear hoodies, play ping pong, act like a bro, or drink every day, and I especially don't come to work to do those things. It's nice when an office has beer taps and ping pong tables, but those things don't bring me in to the office every day. Good coworkers and a good environment for working is what makes me want to go into the office.
  - busterarm 10y ago
    I am 100% with you, but for "startups" this is increasingly normal. My friends needed jobs and the market is rough for juniors right now.
  - noir_lord 10y ago
    Add me to that list. All I want from a workplace is a good computer, somewhere quiet to work (preferably with a door but I don't want to spark that debate, it's tiresome), an efficient manager who ensures a) everyone knows what they should be doing b) communicates a) effectively c) clears obstacles. I never found it so I started a company (of which I'm one of two employees), it's not without challenges but it largely beats working for other people.
    - pmiller2 10y ago
      What are these "doors" that you speak of? I've seen them on the entrances to conference rooms and, of course, to get in the office itself, but I can't imagine why anyone would want one for themselves. ;) Are you hiring? (I'm only somewhat joking there. I'd practically kill for a small office of my own.)
      - busterarm 10y ago
        My office cheated and made the doors glass. Massive sliding glass things that are cumbersome to open and close and very noisy. They might as well not even be there. Also the walls are glass, so you can see and hear everything in the adjacent offices.
      - noir_lord 10y ago
        This my office - http://imgur.com/a/H7fxb http://imgur.com/a/H7fxb I've never measured it but it's around 300sq/ft, anyone I employee in the future (one day..) will get at least that much space, a budget to buy whatever computer gear they want and can have any desk/chair they want (I'll even build them one). The cost of that stuff to the cost of a developer salary is a rounding error - I understand the stupid reasons companies skimp on that stuff but they are just that stupid.

You had colleagues who didn't want to hire someone just because they were "working class"??? Seriously? Were these colleagues a bunch of fedora-wearing hipsters or something?

busterarm 10y ago

I would actually argue that classism is far and away the worst problem in this industry. It just plays out in ways that you don't expect. Hiring mostly grads from top schools is exactly that. In my circle are a lot of junior and fresh out of school developers and one guy I know who killed it in his interview was ultimately not hired and told it was because he didn't "look like a developer". He dressed in normal business casual attire. Another friend of mine who is a significantly worse developer interviewed (and struggled through his interview) for the same job and ultimately was hired because he fit in with their hoodie-wearing, ping-pong-playing frat-bro, drink every day at 4pm culture. There's a fine line between "culture fit" and "cultural homogeny". Fortunately I know that hiring a diverse team is the best way to cultivate a strong team.

gadlfy 10y ago
I don't know — ageism?
- busterarm 10y ago
  Yeah, that too.
pmiller2 10y ago
> hoodie-wearing, ping-pong-playing frat-bro, drink every day at 4pm culture. A lot of people, including myself, would be glad to be excluded from such a place. I don't wear hoodies, play ping pong, act like a bro, or drink every day, and I especially don't come to work to do those things. It's nice when an office has beer taps and ping pong tables, but those things don't bring me in to the office every day. Good coworkers and a good environment for working is what makes me want to go into the office.
- busterarm 10y ago
  I am 100% with you, but for "startups" this is increasingly normal. My friends needed jobs and the market is rough for juniors right now.
- noir_lord 10y ago
  Add me to that list. All I want from a workplace is a good computer, somewhere quiet to work (preferably with a door but I don't want to spark that debate, it's tiresome), an efficient manager who ensures a) everyone knows what they should be doing b) communicates a) effectively c) clears obstacles. I never found it so I started a company (of which I'm one of two employees), it's not without challenges but it largely beats working for other people.
  - pmiller2 10y ago
    What are these "doors" that you speak of? I've seen them on the entrances to conference rooms and, of course, to get in the office itself, but I can't imagine why anyone would want one for themselves. ;) Are you hiring? (I'm only somewhat joking there. I'd practically kill for a small office of my own.)
    - busterarm 10y ago
      My office cheated and made the doors glass. Massive sliding glass things that are cumbersome to open and close and very noisy. They might as well not even be there. Also the walls are glass, so you can see and hear everything in the adjacent offices.
    - noir_lord 10y ago
      This my office - http://imgur.com/a/H7fxb http://imgur.com/a/H7fxb I've never measured it but it's around 300sq/ft, anyone I employee in the future (one day..) will get at least that much space, a budget to buy whatever computer gear they want and can have any desk/chair they want (I'll even build them one). The cost of that stuff to the cost of a developer salary is a rounding error - I understand the stupid reasons companies skimp on that stuff but they are just that stupid.