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Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala. Is that racist too? Not sure exactly what you mean by anti-trade, and how it relates to

Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala. Is that racist too? Not sure exactly what you mean by anti-trade, and how it relates to racism. Mexican is a nationality, not a race. There are Mexicans of all races, including white(which latinos are classed as, but lets say western european ethnicity too) Islam is a religion, not a race. There are Muslims of all races, including white.

Apocryphon 10y ago
Racism is an overused and abused epithet by both sides. Often, tribalist prejudice crosses across racism, nationalism, ethnocentrism, and religious chauvinism. To avoid these semantic games, let's just call it for what it is at the core: bigotry.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala. Is that racist too? A border wall is (independently of whether it is good policy) not inherently racist. Using racist rhetoric to sell a border wall is, OTOH, racist. > Mexican is a nationality, not a race. I'm not sure its particularly productive to argue that a ancestry-based bigotry is technically distinct from racism because it is based on national origin rather than classical races. > There are Mexicans of all races, including white(which latinos are classed as, but lets say western european ethnicity too) Hispanics/Latinos aren't necessarily White; in theory, Hispanic origin "ethnicity" is orthogonal to "race". OTOH, the way it is usually broken out into statistics reflects the fact that "Hispanic" is the only "ethnicity" used along US "race" categories specifically because it reflects a new basis of quasi-racial exclusion in the US which became important after the classical racial categories were established, which is why the categories broken out are, almost without exception, "White (non-Hispanic)", "Black", "Asian/Pacific Islander", "Native American/Alaskan Native", and "Hispanic" -- while on forms that you fill out its treated as an orthogonal category to race, its really in the common thinking exactly another racial category.
pbreit 10y ago
"Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala" No it doesn't.
- googlryas 10y ago
  https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41349.pdf https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41349.pdf p15 If you want to argue that security cordons and fences are not a "wall", then fine. There is no wall on the southern border of Mexico. Just a security cordon and fences.
  - Apocryphon 10y ago
    Trump has said he wanted to build more than a security cordon and fences.
honkhonkpants 10y ago
"Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala." See, here is how it goes. You are a vociferous Trump supporter on the Internet. At the same time, you repeat false things that you heard from some other idiot. It's not much of a leap from there to the conclusion that all Trump supporters are idiots.
- googlryas 10y ago
  https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41349.pdf https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41349.pdf p15
- echaozh 10y ago
  Well, such jumps are not racist, while using nationality and religious beliefs to discriminate people is?
- dang 10y ago
  Please don't be uncivil on HN, regardless of how wrong someone or some group is.

Apocryphon 10y ago

Racism is an overused and abused epithet by both sides. Often, tribalist prejudice crosses across racism, nationalism, ethnocentrism, and religious chauvinism. To avoid these semantic games, let's just call it for what it is at the core: bigotry.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala. Is that racist too? A border wall is (independently of whether it is good policy) not inherently racist. Using racist rhetoric to sell a border wall is, OTOH, racist. > Mexican is a nationality, not a race. I'm not sure its particularly productive to argue that a ancestry-based bigotry is technically distinct from racism because it is based on national origin rather than classical races. > There are Mexicans of all races, including white(which latinos are classed as, but lets say western european ethnicity too) Hispanics/Latinos aren't necessarily White; in theory, Hispanic origin "ethnicity" is orthogonal to "race". OTOH, the way it is usually broken out into statistics reflects the fact that "Hispanic" is the only "ethnicity" used along US "race" categories specifically because it reflects a new basis of quasi-racial exclusion in the US which became important after the classical racial categories were established, which is why the categories broken out are, almost without exception, "White (non-Hispanic)", "Black", "Asian/Pacific Islander", "Native American/Alaskan Native", and "Hispanic" -- while on forms that you fill out its treated as an orthogonal category to race, its really in the common thinking exactly another racial category.

pbreit 10y ago

"Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala" No it doesn't.

googlryas 10y ago
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41349.pdf https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41349.pdf p15 If you want to argue that security cordons and fences are not a "wall", then fine. There is no wall on the southern border of Mexico. Just a security cordon and fences.
- Apocryphon 10y ago
  Trump has said he wanted to build more than a security cordon and fences.

honkhonkpants 10y ago

"Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala." See, here is how it goes. You are a vociferous Trump supporter on the Internet. At the same time, you repeat false things that you heard from some other idiot. It's not much of a leap from there to the conclusion that all Trump supporters are idiots.

googlryas 10y ago
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41349.pdf https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41349.pdf p15
echaozh 10y ago
Well, such jumps are not racist, while using nationality and religious beliefs to discriminate people is?
dang 10y ago
Please don't be uncivil on HN, regardless of how wrong someone or some group is.