3 ms·

I agree Now for the counterpoint, there are a lot of people in the marginalized group that actually do look up to people that advertise their marginalization.

I agree Now for the counterpoint, there are a lot of people in the marginalized group that actually do look up to people that advertise their marginalization. Everyone that doesn't advertise that they are a "woman in tech" or a "black executive" flies completely under the radar. There are literally groups I've been invited to where people make lists of these inspirational characters, because they want to support their businesses more than others. And the people that never said "I'm a black female software engineer that got VC funding" never show up. People assume they don't exist, when the reality is that isn't what they wanted to be known for! Any compromises?

1_2__3 10y ago
We're not here to make people feel better about themselves, we're here to get things done. Someone who obsesses over marginalized groups so much that they can only respect people who play the victim are exactly the sort of people I don't want to work with.
- cloudjacker 10y ago
  ok, except there are other perspectives you have dismissed such as all of the competent people on the periphery of the industry that really are inspired by the women's list in forbes, or the immigrant that hasn't been exposed to the opportunities available for people like them yes, a lot of us are annoyed by it. we are annoyed by the pitiful "lead generation rates" these kind of talks have in changing any demographic in tech. but there are people that actually are inspired by them and don't have another adequate way to filter people. People see Elizabeth Holmes and think that "the man won't let them be successful" reinforced by a history of disenfranchisement, when there are plenty less dramatic examples of success that run counter to that theory. But when those examples don't write articles about it on Linkedin and Medium, people assume they don't really exist.
cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
I don't think the founder of Zipcar or VMWare got to their success by going to conferences and talking about "women in tech". They built stuff that people want. Period.
- cloudjacker 10y ago
  its not about their success, it is about other women looking for inspiration from people that may have encountered the same adversity as them, and only finding the people that talk about being women
  - cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
    You would be right if the narrative was "It was super hard, it was unfair, but I worked my ass off and I succeeded regardless." But that's not the case. The narrative is "There are less women in tech. The companies should be ashamed, and they should hire more women." There's a big difference. The former is actually inspirational because the it lets people know they can succeed despite the hard reality.
    - cloudjacker 10y ago
      I would be inclined to agree with you if I didn't already agree with you You are debating my counterpoint as I can see this issue from the perspectives of other people

1_2__3 10y ago

We're not here to make people feel better about themselves, we're here to get things done. Someone who obsesses over marginalized groups so much that they can only respect people who play the victim are exactly the sort of people I don't want to work with.

cloudjacker 10y ago
ok, except there are other perspectives you have dismissed such as all of the competent people on the periphery of the industry that really are inspired by the women's list in forbes, or the immigrant that hasn't been exposed to the opportunities available for people like them yes, a lot of us are annoyed by it. we are annoyed by the pitiful "lead generation rates" these kind of talks have in changing any demographic in tech. but there are people that actually are inspired by them and don't have another adequate way to filter people. People see Elizabeth Holmes and think that "the man won't let them be successful" reinforced by a history of disenfranchisement, when there are plenty less dramatic examples of success that run counter to that theory. But when those examples don't write articles about it on Linkedin and Medium, people assume they don't really exist.

cocktailpeanuts 10y ago

I don't think the founder of Zipcar or VMWare got to their success by going to conferences and talking about "women in tech". They built stuff that people want. Period.

cloudjacker 10y ago
its not about their success, it is about other women looking for inspiration from people that may have encountered the same adversity as them, and only finding the people that talk about being women
- cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
  You would be right if the narrative was "It was super hard, it was unfair, but I worked my ass off and I succeeded regardless." But that's not the case. The narrative is "There are less women in tech. The companies should be ashamed, and they should hire more women." There's a big difference. The former is actually inspirational because the it lets people know they can succeed despite the hard reality.
  - cloudjacker 10y ago
    I would be inclined to agree with you if I didn't already agree with you You are debating my counterpoint as I can see this issue from the perspectives of other people